What follows is a review of the evidence for and against the doctrine of eternity and the Services for the Departed as taught and practiced by the New Apostolic Church. I've been studying and thinking about these ideas for several years and have gathered them together mostly for my own study. I'm sharing them here on the NACBoard in case someone might find them useful. I'll break this post into two parts -- one that talks about the evidence the church uses to justify it's doctrine and another to discuss evidence against.
From what I've seen so far, I do not think the references support the teaching. In fact, there are several indicators in scripture that seem to prohibit this practice. So this doctrine is not only unjustified but may actually be spiritually harmful.
Few people are ever convinced of a different point of view by a collection of bible verses and this is no exception. As DA Freund has said, "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." So if someone wants to believe then they will find a way. And if someone is looking for an excuse not to believe they, too, will always find a reason. As we like to say, "Form your own opinion."
Support for the NAC doctrine of eternity
1. Paul mentioned the practice of baptizing for the dead
"Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians 15:29)
Paul here is arguing the resurrection of Christ. Some people there practiced baptism for the dead even while arguing against Jesus having risen. Paul points out the inconsistency of their position.
He does not condone their practice. However, he uses it as a point in his argument. He even contrasts those who practice it with himself and the true believers. He uses the term "they" to describe those people. He doesn't say, "what will WE do?"
If Paul believed baptism for the dead was appropriate he would have taught it and practiced it himself. He would have said, "Why are we baptized for the dead?" But he didn't. His only mention associated the practice with a group that didn't even believe Jesus was resurrected. Paul had a rather sharp wit and here he is making fun of their beliefs.
2. Judas and his people made a sin offering for the dead
38: Then Judas assembled his army and went to the city of Adullam. As the seventh day was coming on, they purified themselves according to the custom, and they kept the sabbath there.
39: On the next day, as by that time it had become necessary, Judas and his men went to take up the bodies of the fallen and to bring them back to lie with their kinsmen in the sepulchres of their fathers.
40: Then under the tunic of every one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen.
41: So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden;
42: and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43: He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection.
44: For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.
45: But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (2 Maccabees 12:38-45)
Judas and his people offered for the dead. There is no indication that the dead had any awareness of their intercession or any consciousness at all. They were dead. At best, this might allow for a purgatory-like environment in which souls may be prayed and offered out of their fallen condition. However, there is no suggestion that the departed come back to interact with the living.
Remember, too, that this reference comes from an apocryphal book. These are historically informative but not suitable for development of doctrine.
3. Jesus preached to the spirits in prison
Two passages from 1 Peter are used to suggest that Jesus travelled into eternity after death and ministered to the souls there.
(18)For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, (19)by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, (20)who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)
(6)For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:6)
These passages are not related. In the first, Peter gives encouragement for believers to bear up under their burdens arguing that Christ died for our sins and to bring us to God. The second passage is part of an exhortation for us to live right. Remember what Christ did for us so put aside loose living and live in a Godly manner.
There are three basic ways to interpret 1 Peter 3:18-20.
1. Jesus went and preached to the dead in eternity and offered them a second chance.
2. The spirits He preached to were actually fallen angels. This goes along with the stories of angels being disobedient in the pre-Noah days and taking up with earth women. The "preaching" was an announcement that His victory was complete. Note that Peter uses the word "spirits" -- not "souls" -- even though "souls" is used to refer to the actual people saved in the ark. This is consistent with other passages. Compare this "preaching" with Ephesians 4:8 discussed below.
3. Jesus was spiritually present with Noah in the old days. Jesus (through the Holy Spirit) preached through Noah and yet the people and spirits disobeyed.
This might shed light on Paul's statement:
(1) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, (2)all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, (3)all ate the same spiritual food, (4)and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)
So why would Christ preach specifically to the people of Noah's day? They heard from Noah and had their chance already. If anything, there were worthy of special condemnation. Wouldn't some other group of people who never heard of God or the Gospel message be more deserving of a second chance?
Actually, Peter later explicitly identified the disobedient people from Noah's days as receiving eternal punishment.
(4)For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; (5)and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; ... (9)then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, (2 Peter 2:4, 5, 9)
Many scholars doubt that 2 Peter was written by Peter himself but there is little doubt that it was written after 1 Peter -- probably much later. If Peter was teaching that Jesus saved souls in eternity (or instituted such a teaching) he (or his followers) must have forgotten because this passage clearly contradicts it.
Peter is arguing for believers to maintain the faith, to willingly withstand suffering in the flesh for the sake of Christ who died for them. To suggest that the same offer of salvation would be freely given to those who disobeyed undermines his argument. In that case, why suffer in the flesh?
There are two ways to interpret 1 Peter 4:6.
1. The gospel was preached in eternity to offer the second chance.
2. It is a reminder of why the gospel is preached
As with the passage above, look at the entire argument Peter is making. He has just shown that Christ died for our sins and will bring us to God. Here in the 4th chapter, he encourages believers to avoid sinfulness -- licentiousness, drunkenness, carousing, idolatry.
Consider the context of verses 4-6:
(4)In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. (5)They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. (6)For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:4-6)
Peter tells believers that their friends wonder why they don't party with them anymore and their friends say bad things about them. Don't worry he says -- they will be judged one day.
Verse 6 could be stated differently: That's why the gospel was preached to the unbelievers (dead) so they might also receive mercy and have eternal life. I believe the word "dead" here refers to spiritual death.
This is wholly in line with his argument. As with 1 Peter 3:18-20, to interpret this as offering a second chance TODAY for those in eternity invalidates the point Peter was making. None of this denies God His right to be merciful to whom He will be merciful and nothing suggests how He will dispose of those many "troublesome" situations such as aborted babies, people who have never had a chance to hear the Gospel, or even just those good people who hold other beliefs. God will decide that one day.
4. Jesus descended into eternity after death and ministered to the souls
This reference is included in Q&A #248 in response to the question, "Can the unredeemed dead be helped?"
(8)Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." (9)(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? (10)He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:8-10)
Paul speaks of the one body, one Spirit, one hope and begs the believers to live a life worthy of their calling. This particular passage is taken from Psalm 68:18 to describe Christ's gift of grace to us.
This says nothing about helping the unredeemed dead.
Consider the concept of leading captivity captive. The RSV translation says, "he led a host of captives." The NIV version says, "he led captives in his train." The Matthew Henry commentary adds, "He conquered those who had conquered us--such as sin, the devil, and death." This does NOT mean He freed anybody. Quite the opposite - He was parading His enemies in triumph over them. In those days, the victor led the vanquished for all to see so that their victory would be seen as complete.
Paul makes this same point in Colossians 2:15: "Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."
This is also the idea of 1 Peter 3:18-20 (above). Once the victory was won, Jesus announced it to the enemy. We might say He rubbed their noses in it.
5. God "desires all men to be saved" (1 Timothy 2:4)
This expresses God's wish more than a promise. Of course He would like all men to turn to Him and be saved. That's a John 3:16 type statement -- all who believe can be saved. The problem is that men choose not to. This is like Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem, "How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Matthew 23:37) This verse simply describes God as a loving God.
It is a promise of help and not an assurance of fulfillment because many souls will be lost at the end (Rev 20:15) -- in spite of God's desire that they would turn to Him. Maybe those who will be lost never heard the Gospel in their lifetimes. But even if they later heard it in eternity (assuming this doctrine is true) they still did not accept it. So how necessary was it to "fulfill" God's will in this passage that mankind be offered a second chance in eternity?
Jesus answered that question in His parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man wanted to send a warning to his brothers from eternity. Abraham told him, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." (Luke 16:31) On one level this shows that the idea of a second chance, while attractive to us, would not be effective. On another level this points to the future when many will doubt the risen Christ. The risen Christ Himself was their second chance and they still did not believe. If they doubted Him in life they will doubt Him in death.
From what I've seen so far, I do not think the references support the teaching. In fact, there are several indicators in scripture that seem to prohibit this practice. So this doctrine is not only unjustified but may actually be spiritually harmful.
Few people are ever convinced of a different point of view by a collection of bible verses and this is no exception. As DA Freund has said, "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." So if someone wants to believe then they will find a way. And if someone is looking for an excuse not to believe they, too, will always find a reason. As we like to say, "Form your own opinion."
Support for the NAC doctrine of eternity
1. Paul mentioned the practice of baptizing for the dead
"Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?" (1 Corinthians 15:29)
Paul here is arguing the resurrection of Christ. Some people there practiced baptism for the dead even while arguing against Jesus having risen. Paul points out the inconsistency of their position.
He does not condone their practice. However, he uses it as a point in his argument. He even contrasts those who practice it with himself and the true believers. He uses the term "they" to describe those people. He doesn't say, "what will WE do?"
If Paul believed baptism for the dead was appropriate he would have taught it and practiced it himself. He would have said, "Why are we baptized for the dead?" But he didn't. His only mention associated the practice with a group that didn't even believe Jesus was resurrected. Paul had a rather sharp wit and here he is making fun of their beliefs.
2. Judas and his people made a sin offering for the dead
38: Then Judas assembled his army and went to the city of Adullam. As the seventh day was coming on, they purified themselves according to the custom, and they kept the sabbath there.
39: On the next day, as by that time it had become necessary, Judas and his men went to take up the bodies of the fallen and to bring them back to lie with their kinsmen in the sepulchres of their fathers.
40: Then under the tunic of every one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen.
41: So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden;
42: and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43: He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection.
44: For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.
45: But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (2 Maccabees 12:38-45)
Judas and his people offered for the dead. There is no indication that the dead had any awareness of their intercession or any consciousness at all. They were dead. At best, this might allow for a purgatory-like environment in which souls may be prayed and offered out of their fallen condition. However, there is no suggestion that the departed come back to interact with the living.
Remember, too, that this reference comes from an apocryphal book. These are historically informative but not suitable for development of doctrine.
3. Jesus preached to the spirits in prison
Two passages from 1 Peter are used to suggest that Jesus travelled into eternity after death and ministered to the souls there.
(18)For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, (19)by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, (20)who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)
(6)For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:6)
These passages are not related. In the first, Peter gives encouragement for believers to bear up under their burdens arguing that Christ died for our sins and to bring us to God. The second passage is part of an exhortation for us to live right. Remember what Christ did for us so put aside loose living and live in a Godly manner.
There are three basic ways to interpret 1 Peter 3:18-20.
1. Jesus went and preached to the dead in eternity and offered them a second chance.
2. The spirits He preached to were actually fallen angels. This goes along with the stories of angels being disobedient in the pre-Noah days and taking up with earth women. The "preaching" was an announcement that His victory was complete. Note that Peter uses the word "spirits" -- not "souls" -- even though "souls" is used to refer to the actual people saved in the ark. This is consistent with other passages. Compare this "preaching" with Ephesians 4:8 discussed below.
3. Jesus was spiritually present with Noah in the old days. Jesus (through the Holy Spirit) preached through Noah and yet the people and spirits disobeyed.
This might shed light on Paul's statement:
(1) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, (2)all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, (3)all ate the same spiritual food, (4)and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)
So why would Christ preach specifically to the people of Noah's day? They heard from Noah and had their chance already. If anything, there were worthy of special condemnation. Wouldn't some other group of people who never heard of God or the Gospel message be more deserving of a second chance?
Actually, Peter later explicitly identified the disobedient people from Noah's days as receiving eternal punishment.
(4)For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; (5)and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; ... (9)then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, (2 Peter 2:4, 5, 9)
Many scholars doubt that 2 Peter was written by Peter himself but there is little doubt that it was written after 1 Peter -- probably much later. If Peter was teaching that Jesus saved souls in eternity (or instituted such a teaching) he (or his followers) must have forgotten because this passage clearly contradicts it.
Peter is arguing for believers to maintain the faith, to willingly withstand suffering in the flesh for the sake of Christ who died for them. To suggest that the same offer of salvation would be freely given to those who disobeyed undermines his argument. In that case, why suffer in the flesh?
There are two ways to interpret 1 Peter 4:6.
1. The gospel was preached in eternity to offer the second chance.
2. It is a reminder of why the gospel is preached
As with the passage above, look at the entire argument Peter is making. He has just shown that Christ died for our sins and will bring us to God. Here in the 4th chapter, he encourages believers to avoid sinfulness -- licentiousness, drunkenness, carousing, idolatry.
Consider the context of verses 4-6:
(4)In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. (5)They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. (6)For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:4-6)
Peter tells believers that their friends wonder why they don't party with them anymore and their friends say bad things about them. Don't worry he says -- they will be judged one day.
Verse 6 could be stated differently: That's why the gospel was preached to the unbelievers (dead) so they might also receive mercy and have eternal life. I believe the word "dead" here refers to spiritual death.
This is wholly in line with his argument. As with 1 Peter 3:18-20, to interpret this as offering a second chance TODAY for those in eternity invalidates the point Peter was making. None of this denies God His right to be merciful to whom He will be merciful and nothing suggests how He will dispose of those many "troublesome" situations such as aborted babies, people who have never had a chance to hear the Gospel, or even just those good people who hold other beliefs. God will decide that one day.
4. Jesus descended into eternity after death and ministered to the souls
This reference is included in Q&A #248 in response to the question, "Can the unredeemed dead be helped?"
(8)Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." (9)(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? (10)He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:8-10)
Paul speaks of the one body, one Spirit, one hope and begs the believers to live a life worthy of their calling. This particular passage is taken from Psalm 68:18 to describe Christ's gift of grace to us.
This says nothing about helping the unredeemed dead.
Consider the concept of leading captivity captive. The RSV translation says, "he led a host of captives." The NIV version says, "he led captives in his train." The Matthew Henry commentary adds, "He conquered those who had conquered us--such as sin, the devil, and death." This does NOT mean He freed anybody. Quite the opposite - He was parading His enemies in triumph over them. In those days, the victor led the vanquished for all to see so that their victory would be seen as complete.
Paul makes this same point in Colossians 2:15: "Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."
This is also the idea of 1 Peter 3:18-20 (above). Once the victory was won, Jesus announced it to the enemy. We might say He rubbed their noses in it.
5. God "desires all men to be saved" (1 Timothy 2:4)
This expresses God's wish more than a promise. Of course He would like all men to turn to Him and be saved. That's a John 3:16 type statement -- all who believe can be saved. The problem is that men choose not to. This is like Jesus lamenting over Jerusalem, "How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Matthew 23:37) This verse simply describes God as a loving God.
It is a promise of help and not an assurance of fulfillment because many souls will be lost at the end (Rev 20:15) -- in spite of God's desire that they would turn to Him. Maybe those who will be lost never heard the Gospel in their lifetimes. But even if they later heard it in eternity (assuming this doctrine is true) they still did not accept it. So how necessary was it to "fulfill" God's will in this passage that mankind be offered a second chance in eternity?
Jesus answered that question in His parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man wanted to send a warning to his brothers from eternity. Abraham told him, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." (Luke 16:31) On one level this shows that the idea of a second chance, while attractive to us, would not be effective. On another level this points to the future when many will doubt the risen Christ. The risen Christ Himself was their second chance and they still did not believe. If they doubted Him in life they will doubt Him in death.
?
NEVER!
