This is an UNOFFICIAL link site and message board for english speaking “open” discussions on the New Apostolic Church (NAC). We want this to be a neutral site for all opinions and hope that all participants recognize and respect opposing view points and are above profanity and personal attacks.

Unlike the official site, where everything is in oneness, over here various participants have strong opinions which may not agree with the official NAC party line, be warned. Open discussion means “within the confines of any rules that the Founder and Admins have deemed necessary to promote the stated purpose of this board”.

Thank you

"The NAC is a business owned by a select few men who managed to replace the carrot, with god"

~ Finch ~

Online Bible : NKJV Easy Reference : Bible Passage Lookup / Word Search

Find that word! Dictionary / Thesaurus Want to check your spelling? SpellCheck

Interesting Documents : NACBoard@faithweb

kbb's esnips site : NAC Publications, CAC Historical Documents and more

Official Site : NAC USA/Canada/Mexico NAC S Africa : NACCape NACSEA

NAC International : NAK.org NAC UK & Ireland : NACukie.org NAC Australia : newapostolic.org.au

Administrators' e-mail : Ken :kenlitzke@yahoo.com

Brenda : brenda_lk1@yahoo.com Rich : calamity01@gmail.com

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Pressing for details

Author	Comment
deaconess	Pressing for details		Lead	[-]
Posts: 7280 06/19/2008 11:19 NAC Thorn in the Side	Tags : None The following press release is presently on the home page of the New Apostolic Church USA's website: New Apostolic Church USA contributes to the Red Cross to support China earthquake victims May 28, 2008 - Sea Cliff, New York On behalf of the several hundred New Apostolic Chinese members in the New York metropolitan area, the New Apostolic Church USA has made a generous contribution to the Red Cross which will assist in providing the necessary support to victims of the tragic earthquake in China. In a statement made by District Apostle Freund (President of NAC USA), he offered the following remarks, '...We carry all those affected by the tragic earthquake in our thoughts and prayers. On behalf of our Chinese congregations in the United States, I was moved to make this special donation to aid those in need of disaster relief...'. For further information please contact our Chicago Office at: New Apostolic Church USA 3753 North Troy Street Chicago, IL 60618 Phone: 773-539-3652 The press release does not indicate the amount of the "generous donation". I contacted the Chicago office this morning to inquire as to the amount of the "generous donation" and as to whether the donation was made to the American Red Cross or the International Red Cross. My call was forwarded to Ellyn Eckhardt's voice mail (she was out of her office at the time) and I left my inquiries there. Last Edited By: deaconess 06/19/2008 12:20. Edited 3 times.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
lost		#1		[-]
Posts: 2196 06/19/2008 11:30 High Priestess	deaconess asks........The press release does not indicate the amount of the "generous donation". I contacted the Chicago office this morning to inquire as to the amount of the "generous donation" and as to whether the donation was made to the American Red Cross or the International Red Cross. My call was forwarded to Ellyn Eckhardt's voice mail (she was out of her office at the time) and I left my inquiries there. Good luck with getting an answer on that one. The letter was also read in the Chinese congregations in my neck of the woods.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Katherine		#2		[-]
Posts: 2994 06/19/2008 22:29 Bleeding Heart	And don't forget now: Those donating to this relief fund must be reminded that their donations do NOT take the place of the 10%. These donations are ON TOP of one's 10%.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
deaconess	response	#3		[-]
Posts: 7280 06/20/2008 08:28 NAC Thorn in the Side	My inquiry was "forwarded" to Ap. Kolb for response. He e-mailed the information that I had requested! (The donation was $10,000.)
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
lost		#4		[-]
Posts: 2196 06/20/2008 08:45 High Priestess	deaconess wrote: My inquiry was "forwarded" to Ap. Kolb for response. He e-mailed the information that I had requested! (The donation was $10,000.) WOW!!!! What an enormous amount!!!!!! They should be ashamed of themselves. Good grief!!! It's perfectly clear why we don't see the finance's. We would be mortified to see where or who gets the $$$$$$$. Last Edited By: lost 06/20/2008 08:47. Edited 1 time.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Shaquille	"Generous"	#5		[-]
Posts: 643 06/20/2008 11:16 Forum Moderator	I am glad the NAC made a contribution to the Red Cross for Chinese victims; this is what the church should be doing. But $10,000 is not a large donation, no doubt far less than the hotel bill of the CA's visit to LA. It is misleading to call that a "generous" donation. I wonder, is the church willing to disclose its entire philanthropic budget? The sum of $10,000 might not be so small if the church has a regular program of providing for those in need. However, that leads us again to that slippery slope of financial transparency--the place where the NAC just won't go.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
bertiesb		#6		[-]
Posts: 1085 06/20/2008 12:16 May Contain Traces Of Nut.	lost wrote: deaconess wrote: My inquiry was "forwarded" to Ap. Kolb for response. He e-mailed the information that I had requested! (The donation was $10,000.) WOW!!!! What an enormous amount!!!!!! They should be ashamed of themselves. Good grief!!! It's perfectly clear why we don't see the finance's. We would be mortified to see where or who gets the $$$$$$$. "We would be mortified to see where or who gets the $$$$$$$" How is that?
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Shaquille	As for me...	#7		[-]
Posts: 643 06/20/2008 12:40 Forum Moderator	Bertie quotes Lost "We would be mortified to see where or who gets the $$$$$$$", and queries, "How is that?" I don't presume to speak for Lost, but my response is that when a nonprofit institution refuses to disclose its finances, there is quite likely something they don't want their contributors to know. Otherwise, why not open the books? It's a question that has never been answered by Church officials. Even my still-attending buddies in the NAC note that there seems to be no expense spared for a dignitary event such as a CA visit, and yet locally churches can't get money to repair the water heater and have hot water in the bathroom. Or they are being told the congregation is too small, and that the building should be sold and the congregation moved into a rental. While I no longer contribute to the church, I sure would like to know where my offerings really went during those years--what percentage of income was spend on travel, salary and events in comparison to building maintenance, church programs, and charity. I regret now that I was such a poor steward of the funds God granted me, for I gave what for me were "generous donations" to an organization that has not and will never account for itself.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Ed Banger	I feel sick...	#8		[-]
Posts: 2322 06/20/2008 17:05 Redneck Bishop	...and those that still offer should too. When I was active and still a TB'er, traveling here and there and to the backside of beyond for services, visiting, Brothers and Wives mtgs, helping those in the congregation that NEEDED financial help, putting flowers on the altar and in being a$$hole high on a giraffe in debt, living from paycheck to paycheck, pulling down 50k a year (and that's Edwina's and my salary COMBINED) I managed to make the 10% mark (and at the time was glad to give "what was due to the Lord."). And oh, lets not forget that "special" day in October (which was a fricking Canadian holiday, not a US holiday) when we were supposed to offer a "sacrifce". And this cheap a$$ church gives a "generous" donation of only 10K?????????????????????? (Graphic removed under Rule 10 - Admins. Stoppit, Ed!) Last Edited By: NACBoard Admins 06/23/2008 05:35. Edited 1 time.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
lost		#9		[-]
Posts: 2196 06/20/2008 17:12 High Priestess	Shaquille hits it right on the head. Thanks and no worries you can speak on my behalf anytime. Just to add to Shaq's post. Now Bertie, do you think $10,000 is generous? I don't. I do think it is a very generous amount if it was from a person, or family, or even a congregation. I think it's mind boggling that a church that has millions of dollars contributes only $10,000. What does that cover? Hardly anything. I am sure that the church rakes in more then that in one week from offering. If it's so generous, then I would presume the powers that be would not be ashamed to disclose the amount. Why wasn't it disclosed in the letter that was read in the congregations? Why did someone have to ask for the amount? Financial transparency will never happen, at least not in my lifetime. That is all. BTW thanks bertie, good to know you still like me.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Trike Troll	Canada's China refief plan.	#10		[-]
Posts: 1837 06/20/2008 17:32 Scourge of God	This was announced last Sunday with a 3 minute Video. China earthquake relief. Google NAC Botschaft ...with 1-4-5
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
nacknock		#11		[-]
Posts: 35 06/20/2008 18:20	Is Freund flipping out? 10k is considered generous??? The NAC is for sure cracked! Is the 10k from him personally because he said "I" made the donation or is it as usual from the members and his royal DAP-ness is taking the credit. Once again the NAC shoots itself in its spit shined black shoe clad foot! And as donations go the USA is suffering thousands of displaced people due to tornadoes, floods and other natural disasters. We bailed out Europe after WWII and most of all Germany. I am wondering if NAC-Central in Swissland or is that Sissyland will float a few donations our way or are we going to get the same lame lukewarm lazy response we got from Feher (Fair? I'd say rather poor) after 911. The USA has alway been a cash cow for the NAC, when are Euro-NACS gonna open their pockets or are their lederhosen too tight?
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Katherine		#12		[-]
Posts: 2994 06/20/2008 20:53 Bleeding Heart	http://www.nak-caritativ.de/ It's in German, but you don't really need a translation. Each project is listed, along with the amount donated, in Euros, which means you need to divide by half and add that onto the sum to get the equivalent amount of dollars. Whether this is less, the same or more than what other European churches typically donate, I don't know. Now, could someone from the North American church point me to a similar site outlining the charitable causes with which they are involved, including specific amounts donated/balance sheets? To answer your question: Freund isn't flipping out. He's carrying on a long tradition. As an ex-member of the North American NAC who also attended the church in Europe for a number of years, it seems to me that there is one reason that the NAC North America was/is a cash cow: Kraus and his heirs. That spiritual extortion worked wonders. The "Thanksgiving" letters filled with examples of what happens when one does not offer "the best" were a great means of generating large sums of money, especially from people who really didn't have it to begin with. The extraordinary amount of some of the checks placed into that offertory, and the typical take for a Thanksgiving service, would make your head spin. And it all went right down the memory hole -- and still does. No trail, paper or otherwise.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Newton Javas	What gives?	#13		[-]
Posts: 297 06/20/2008 23:18	This is such a conflicting topic for me. I am pleased the church is making donations when an event such as this occurs. This IS happening more than in the past, in particular under Kraus. Unfortunately, the church is very quick to wrench its arm to pat themselves on the back for the good deed. I think it is very nice the church disclosed the amount. Of course, this was AFTER a specific request, which, IMHO could not be ignored since deaconess was asking. Sadly, the church thinks $10,000 is 'generous'. What a joke! How many times did Kraus brag that 98 1/2% of the Canada District was supported by 1 1/2% of the membership's (North America) offering? What about the $1000 that would build a church in India or Africa? What about the years of the "Thanksgivings"? As a former AB, I can tell you MANY years our congregation alone topped that and then some. Shaq points out: I regret now that I was such a poor steward of the funds God granted me, for I gave what for me were "generous donations" to an organization that has not and will never account for itself. AMEN! NJ
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
myule17	NAC Canada - China relief	#14		[-]
Posts: 1116 06/21/2008 20:21 Devoted NAC Apologist	This was announced last Sunday with a 3 minute Video. China earthquake relief. I think this is commendable - are other churches as generous ? Wow for once I see no critical or negative comments
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Ed Banger	I gotta give NAC Canada credit	#15		[-]
Posts: 2322 06/21/2008 21:43 Redneck Bishop	I did a quick tally of congregations in Canada and came up w/about 100 . Using an estimate of 200 bucks per congregation (just a number I pulled outta thin air), thats twice as much as USA NAC. Way to go Canada!!!!!! The only really respectable Protestants are the fundamentalists. Unfortunately, they are also palpable idiots. H.L. Mencken
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Trike Troll	NAC with "sum dough chi"	#16		[-]
Posts: 1837 06/22/2008 03:48 Scourge of God	Ed: I did a quick tally of congregations in Canada and came up w/about 100 . That's about right there Ed...however...3 of them are also Chinese...and rapidly growing. In the wake of the Myanmar/Burmese disaster which seems to be even greater that the Chinese situation I feel somewhat suspicious of this NAC Canada's China relief effort. DAH Hebiesen acknowledged that the NAC in China is still an underground church, that and the large population of Chinese in Canada surely raises some questions at the timeliness of this latest stunt. Cracking open my fortune cookie after a meal at Wong's reading Google NAC Botschaft ...with 1-4-5 Last Edited By: Trike Troll 06/22/2008 03:51. Edited 1 time.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Katherine		#17		[-]
Posts: 2994 06/22/2008 14:16 Bleeding Heart	I think this is commendable - are other churches as generous ? Are you kidding me, Myule? You really need to get out more. Seriously. Other churches ROUTINELY designate certain Sundays as a day to collect for relief efforts. In fact, many churches designate the first Sunday of each month as the day that all offerings go to the parish's discretionary fund. In other words, all money collected that day is used for charitable causes. And, wonder of wonders, the parishioners get to see a balance sheet at the end of the month, showing exactly how the money was spent! It's just amazing, except to those of us who have taken off our NAC blinders. As to dollar amounts, do a Google on the charitable arms of any of the major churches, e.g., Catholic Charities, Episcopal Charities, Baptist Outreach or whatever. You'll see that the numbers there dwarf Freund's $10,000 "generous" donation. And, let's face it, the NAC wouldn't be doing ANYTHING had it not been for the advent of the internet and the pressure this has placed on them to polish their image.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
GerGuest001		#18		[-]
Posts: 2797 06/22/2008 15:09	Katherine: It's in German, but you don't really need a translation. Each project is listed, along with the amount donated, in Euros, which means you need to divide by half and add that onto the sum to get the equivalent amount of dollars. Whether this is less, the same or more than what other European churches typically donate, I don't know. Now, could someone from the North American church point me to a similar site outlining the charitable causes with which they are involved, including specific amounts donated/balance sheets? 11.06.2008Überraschende Unterstützung aus der Gebietskirche Kanada In einer Sonderaktion hat die NAC-Canada zu Spenden für Sambia motoviert. Die Mittel sollen schwerpunktmäßig für die Wiedererrichtung zerstörter Hütten und Häuser eingesetzt werden. Obwohl den Spendern keine steuerwirksame Spendenbescheinigung ausgestellt werden kann, wurden insgesamt 69.000 Kanadische Dollar für den Wiederaufbau in Sambia gespendet. Allen Unterstützern sagen wir ein herzliches Dankeschön. From http://www.nak-caritativ.de/sites/news.htm (The NAC Canada has donated 69,000 Canadian dollars for Sambia. The news from 2008-06-05 report a first installment of 300,000 Euro from the missionary work of the district South Germany, some other district churches, and NAKI and from individual donors as an immediate help for Sambia. The news from 2008-06-11 report about another 100,000 Euro from the South Germany district missionary work and 50,000 Euro from NAKI). I believe it was on the same "news" page where I read that NAK karitativ is negotiating with the Canadian and US administration to pool the efforts and use synergies for the international administration of humanitarian projects in the NAC. Regards, GerGuest001
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Katherine		#19		[-]
Posts: 2994 06/22/2008 15:19 Bleeding Heart	That's great, GG, but again, the North American Church is relying on the initiative of others. And their donation is a fraction of what the area of Southern Germany has donated (69,000 Canadian dollars vs. 300,000 Euros, which equals about 450,000 USD, and that's without the later installments of 150,000 Euros). I thought the North American church was the financial backbone of the NAC? Also, NAK-Karitive designates this donation from Canada as an "Ueberraschung" and "Sonderaktion," which implies that this is something surprising and quite out of the ordinary! As to whether the NAC Canada/USA will allow itself to be put under the thumb of the European-based NAK-Karitiv, well.... don't hold your breath, or look for some back-door negotiations. Edited for clarification and to fix typos. Last Edited By: Katherine 06/22/2008 15:27. Edited 2 times.
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
GerGuest001		#20		[-]
Posts: 2797 06/22/2008 17:00	I thought the North American church was the financial backbone of the NAC? Oh, I see. Is that what you have been told? (What do you mean by "was" ? Just a joke.) Regards, GerGuest001
My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post

Quick Reply

This is NOT an official New Apostolic Church website! For official news or
information regarding the church, please contact:

**The New Apostolic Church * 404 Glen Cove Ave, Sea Cliff, NY 11579 * 516-609-9300**

e-mail Peter Johanning, Media Secretary of the New Apostolic Church : peter.johanning@nak.org