Trikker calmly commented: I printed off a hard copy for my Lawyer, i'll see if it can be used as evidence for my own ex-letter when i try to overturn it.

ummm... you are kidding, right??? I mean.... you haven't gotten a letter, have you? orrrrrr, are you just anticipating getting one? orrrrr... you're poking fun at the "possibility"?

In the current Constitution/BYLAWS of the National Organization of the New Apostolic Church of North America it states as follows :

from the BYLAWS:

Quote:

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ARTICLE VIII, Section 4. LOSS OF MEMBERSHIP.

Loss of membership occurs by voluntary withdrawal or by being excommunicated by the Church. The voluntary withdrawal of a membership becomes effective by the delivery of written notice to the Church of the members' desire to withdraw. Excommunication becomes effective by order of the District Apostle, if in his opinion there is just cause. Just cause for excommunication shall include, among other things, frequent and intentional violation of the doctrines and tenets of the Church, failure to observe the decrees and orders of the District Apostle, frequent dishonorable rebukes, or any conduct which in the unrestricted discretion of the District Apostle makes a person's continued membership in the Church improper. In such a case, the member shall have the right within three (3) months after the excommunication to appeal and place his or her case before the Board of Trustees for final decision. In such event, the results of the proceeding shall be set forth in writing.

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(The Constitution states the above, but in a condensed version.)
*note: the DA has the sole discretion to appoint and dismiss the Board of Trustees.

following are a few of the posts that were lost during the hacking re. Pathmann. "peaches" was a spokesperson for Pathmann.

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Calamity wrote: i was cleaning up my hard drive and i found a text file containing a lot of peaches' (SP's) posts from this thread . . . unfortunately, i haven't found a corresponding file for all the replies, but at least this is *something* to look at (history-wise) other than a decimated board.

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peaches
Registered User
Posts: 1
(5/26/04 6:25)
Reply Surprising letter
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All rectors in Chicago have a copy of the letter read about Steve Pathmann and the souls from his former working areas that comprised this so called group.Orders were given no copies to be given out or members who asked to see letter for either not being there that day it was read , or not being able to hear it well enough (seniors)when read were denied a copy when requested, only would the letter be re-read in such cases.I personally had a chance to read it though (as did the rectors ) -.__I will say the D.Ap.Freund and Bishop Orlofski rose in my eyes for with this letter the USA for the first time stood up to do what was right before God ,regardless of its oppressors to the north and did what took alot of class and guts.For all this group of members have gone through ,for close to 18 years, only God knows it all,but more should of been said and I certainly hope the D.A. doesnt stop with this letter only considering all each of these went through,than I think it was just a chess move in a big game.Id like to believe this was done with no alternative motives,for these souls have certainly been through enough and as the D.A.s letter saids "these souls who are AND WERE very faithful" and yes ask yourself this is the first time in North America this church has ever apologized for anything its done.Ask if that in itself doesnt say it all -one would have to have a rock between their ears.



peaches
Posts: 2
(5/28/04 0:37)
Reply surprising letter
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The Apostle Boer was faithful and Loyal to the Lord and the NAC till the day he died,yet his lifes story made Jobs trials and INJUSTICE look like a walk in the park.He would hold a Divine Service and all age groups would sit on the edge of their seats.He could of taken his oppressors to court AND WON over many of injustices done to him out of sheer evilness by certain men but he said if even one souls faith would of been hurt all the money and personal satisfaction wouldnt of been worth it.He lived to please the Lord and was loyal to the ministry of the Chief Apostle regardless of the mans name.I heard he had friends in the states and a few years ago came and spent quite a bit of time there.Youll never beleive who his buddy was-Steve Pathman," and now you know the rest of the story"



peaches
Posts: 3
(5/28/04 13:13)
Reply Ap.Boer
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Dear Brenda: If you care to post some of your questions perhaps we could get some answers.I have a`mutual friend of Steve Pathmanns and although Steve when asked for a copy of the letter by this mutual friend graciously declined for some reason(I know he really loves the D.Ap. and Bishop who worked on the letter,he said how the D.Ap. reminded him of his dear friend C.Ap.Urwyler in many ways,for him to say that they must really of hit it off )maybe he was asked not to,I dont know for sure.But he has always spoken openly about his dear friend Ap.Boer and I know he even went to the funeral in Australia with two former rectors-priests that are tight with him- at the request of the family .Maybe theyd comment.I do know Steve was even asked to hold the funeral but declined (for he had-has no ministry).I do know Switzerland and Ap.Boer were on good terms prior to his death,for Steve Im told was given a letter and text from Switzerland (an Apostle)to comfort the family of which Steve was asked to read aloud at the funeral. In it contained a form of apology.Again this is second hand,but from a very reliable source.



peaches
Posts: 4
(5/28/04 13:26)
Reply Ap.Boer
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Dear brenda:Just a thought -Maybe if you write Steve direct with your questions you could get your answers easier.....Steve Pathmann,127 Cranberry Lane,Lake Barrington,Illinois 60010 USA .....just a thought




(Posts 5 and 6 were not made in the "Steve Pathmann" thread, therefore they weren't included here)



peaches
Posts: 7
(5/28/04 14:54)
Reply Ap.Boer
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Brenda;I just called my friend whos tight with Steve Pathmann to see about some answers to your Ap.Boer Questions.Steve out of town till tuesday."Fishing"


(Posts 8 and 9 were not made in the "Steve Pathmann" thread, therefore they weren't included here)


peaches
Posts: 10
(6/25/04 13:26)
Reply Pathmann letter
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I have been told that the letter that was read from the altar has now been mailed to all the families the whole situation affected as well their relatives and those that these families requested it go to .To answer deaconess: The Poelzings were one of them I know got one and I agree it would be nice to see Pr.Poelzing back in office ,he was always so kind when we were there on holidays!Many of his relatives and friends in Buffalo received the letter.There is probably at least a few letters in just about every district in USA ,I also heard quite a few in Europe even got them.This was much bigger than realized by most.I think it was nice that the D.Ap. sent them out.



peaches
Posts: 11
(6/25/04 13:53)
Reply Pathmann Letter
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As I mentioned on another thread the letter of apology which was read from the altar back in April has now been mailed to each family that was affected by the situation as well as those that these souls had requested it go to -relatives and those directly involved.As I mentioned on the other thread Pr. Poelzing from Hawaii who deaconess got one and his relatives and others out east here as well.I agree with deaconess knowing the Poelzings from going to Hawaii on holiday it would be nice to see him put back in office-others too.I think it took alot for the D.Ap. to do this and I respect him for it.It was and is a situation that is quite deep.The D.Ap. I heard met with Steve for 5 hours and the Bishop of the area even longer.I also can understand if the situation is the magnitude Ive heard that theres really no reason to write a book about it and clean the laundry in public.I don't see why you think Steve would want to tell all-Im sure its hurt enough and he just wants to go on.Thats what Id want at least if I had gone through it.




peaches
Posts: 12
(7/6/04 22:19)
Reply Pathmann letter
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Dear Brenda:I recently called Steve and asked him a question, I thought it worth mentioning to you.Ive always known and had my beleifs as to this "whole" groups innocence,as did most here and Europe that knew what was going on ,(except youd be benched or kicked out for bringing it up ,as Pr.Kreiger found out in Chicago and others,thats another story in itself)the records of Chicagos growth in many ways( numbers "enthusiam" ect) speak for themselves when the Ap.E.Vovak and Steve were there.I said to him if someone or a group were put in jail and 20 years ,later were set free and found innocencent there would be some kind of restitution or compensation,did "ANY" of you or of this so called group get offered or receive ANYTHING other than the letter which was selectively sent out?His answer was no -not to his knowledge,it was never even brought up nor to his knowledge did anyone even think of it till I asked him.He did say when I asked him what would he desire if asked by the bosses ,so to speak .He said his desire would be that a check &balance system be implemented and that every soul BENCHED over the last 20-25 years be visited (members who quit or got KICKED out too) by an "unbias party" and try to offer to each the oppurtunity to tell THEIR side and if possible extend an apology where warranted and focus on this kind of activity rather than putting 100% of the effort into finding new souls. He said the C.Ap. Urwyler told him years ago that the last soul could of been sealed years ago but not ripened enough yet for the Lord to come.He did speak highly of your conversation with him.The only negative I got was by posting his home address on the board he feels like santa at Christmas with all the mail,that was said jokingly.




(Post 13 was not made in the "Steve Pathmann" thread, therefore it wasn't included here)




peaches
Posts: 14
(8/5/04 15:16)
Reply Re:Making amends
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Brenda I believe the reason that Hawaii was included in this letter is Steve Pathmann worked there for years and Samoa as well.I saw an old "Canada District News" from 1984 and there it said Steve had already made some 30 trips to Samoa alone .I know he covered other areas of the pacific as well.Thats how him and Pr.Poelzing became so close.As of just last year I also know brothers from all over the pacific and other working areas steve worked in (some brothers still in office) would get together for a week every year (since steve was out even) and go to his sommer haus in Minnesota somewhere.I wonder if the letter went to Samoa or the other islands.



peaches
Posts: 15
(8/5/04 15:33)
Reply Making amends
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I wanted to add to what I just posted (as to not get Pr.Poelzing singled out and in trouble ) that I know for a fact that "active" Apostles (swiss etc) have even stayed at Steves place for weeks at a time with him on holiday .Steve has even had Apostle Boer (Australia) there along with others.Its suppose to be a really neat place on a lake,has boats,jet skis ,sauna etc.I can only imagine how wonderful that would be to be in such a relaxed environment with such Apostles for weeks and not be rushed but rather relaxed and enjoy such company.



peaches
Posts: 16
(8/13/04 13:27)
Reply Claim about phone tap & PI
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I know for a fact that in 1991 Steves wife had a birthday party for him.There was over 150 NAC there,from Samoa,Hawaii,Buffalo NY ect..A neighbor of Steves called about a car sitting all day across the street in the driveway of a new house being built.Steve and his neighbor went there at dusk and the neighbor pulled the guy out of the car physically(after seeing all this electronic equipment set up in the car.As the neighbor had the fellow against the car he said he(the PI) was hired by some church out of Canada (he said some town near Toronto) to tap the phone and take pictures.Steve I know still has his card.The ironic thing was that all the brothers there were given a choice sever your ties with Steve or be benched.Many were benched!Than copies appeared in the "Pathmann File" of CANADA of each car and their license plate that was there.European Apostles actually saw these photos and were sick over them.Again as Steve answered Brenda due to the fact ALL assets( as per document signed blindly) were in Canada's hands he could do nothing .Ask Pr.Poelzing or the Kies family ,the Nelson family or anyone who was there.PS My Apostle confirmed this situation to me PERSONALLY.



peaches
Posts: 17
(8/19/04 12:34)
Reply Responding to a few posts
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I copied this entire thread and went and showed it to Steve,he read it in its entirety and just was silent.Than said in a very quiet tone-Can anyone even imagine what 17 years in prison is like?Than after that seventeen years to have a letter of apology written and be told were sorry now, well release you and now you forget that all this ever happened.I was never even told why I was benched (other than that I was to close to the Chief).I was asked to come to Canada D.Ap. Kraus & Ap. Wagner met me at the gate when I arrived at the airport,taken to a hotel across the street where I was put in a conference room and told I must choose between following C.Ap. Urwyler or D.Ap. Kraus where I responded I always loved you D.Ap. but you yourself taught me when in doubt always follow the Chief. I than took leave .Shortly there after I was benched .Than a few years later on a Sunday morning at 7:00 am my doorbell rings and its D.Ap.Kraus Ap.Wagner & Ap.W.Vovak (a newly ordained Dist.Leader drove them he sat in the car with it running) Steve said he was happy that possibly this nightmare was over.When they entered, his quiet mannered passive dog who never hardly ever barked started to growl as if to attack .The D.Ap. started to yell and even swear and told Steve he came personally to inform him that he and his family were never welcome in Gods house again.Than said in a year you'll be bankrupt,sick ect. ect. Steve than calmly asked that he leave .Pr. Poelzing was staying at Steves house and was standing down the hall and heard it.He than said in further connection with the prison scenario -any servant of God who loves this work cannot suffer a greater pain than being benched except for being supposedly excommunicated,he said Ive carried and still do both.Seventeen years -365 days a year -365 long nights .When after some 11 or so years his children are allowed back but not the parents.His children were in three services a week.Imagine that pain that he and his wife felt he said!Even in the court system what would a man-women feel after serving a 17 year sentence only to be released and told were sorry now forget it all every things fine! He does have a great respect for D.Ap. Freundt and does feel he'll care for things ,he said hes always even prayed for those who did all this .He loves this work with all his heart and has always laid that in his childrens heart.His oldest son is a Deacon and choir director ,his daughter sings in the choir and his youngest is a doorman.His wife sings in choir and plays the organ.The only posting he really commented on directly was "interested" one about if the wife-husband carried something for 5-10 years that would be wrong.If anyone knows Steve they know hes not a bitter man ,he tries and always has tried to carry his cross with dignity,everyday drawing from the Blessing The Chief Apostle Urwyler gave him he said. When I asked him will your life ever be the same he said,I wouldn't want it to be ,I followed men as if God ,blindly even sometimes .Now I follow Christ through his teaching embodied in that which our Chief Apostle teaches .He also said he couldn't have learned in 100 years as a Dist Elder under Canada District as I have from 17 years of injustice. I was informed of some other issues that pertained to imfo-facts he has on money handling issues but said ,they'll have to answer to God for that not me.He refered to the Word of Life supplement someone faxed him (12 page one from July this year) and said if only every soul (not just ABs) would read that and live its contents things would be much better all around.



peaches
Posts: 18
(8/20/04 15:4
Reply gossip
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Interested: Excuse me if Im a little slow,but whats your point?When reading your numerous postings you seem to go from one extreme to another.With due respect xxx ,whats your motive or question here.Should we kick Steve out again ,this time for his quotes or comments being recited by myself or Brenda due to poor grammar ? Im reminded of that old saying "Empty vessels make the most noise".



peaches
Posts: 19
(8/20/04 17:59)
Reply Interested
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Dear Interested: Please excuse me if I seemed a little to defensive of Steve. I am just someone who has been there and seen what this man and his family have lived through and how great his love is for this church.How hes so hungry for love from those he loves so much.Yes he loves the D.Ap. Freund,his first love though is to Jesus Christ and his doctrine,the Chief Apostle and those one with that ministry(which he does beleive the D. Ap. is).Through the years he would get calls when certain issues were discussed here ,including past ones about himself.It was to much for him to carry (being handcuffed) unable to do anything about things ect.So he asked me to monitor it and report to him as needed.He wasnt against the board ,on the contrary ,he was glad that certain issues were brought to light.This whole 17 years though has been a very heavy cross to bear.Yes hes had the love and support of Swiss & German Apostles and goes there every so often and been strengthened only to come home to the same spiritual enviroment.I was than asked to keep an eye from time to time and fill him in on any important issues.I have seen for many years first hand the effect of such a weight upon him.I will say its meant alot to him the many kind posts on this particular thread.As I mentioned the other day I copied the entire thread and brought it to him and his reaction.I personally dont beleive this work will advance one bit till this WHOLE matter is cleaned up.Its not a Steve issue, only it effects every single soul in this district,Canada as well, for thats where its roots were and are.No Im not a relative of his ,just someone that cares and has known him for years and years.You see what something(someone) is made of when in the furnace,the longer the purer!Theres much more Id like to say but he doesnt know Im writting this now.I did not leave his employ as others did when given the ultimatum to years ago and Ive never regretted it once.



peaches
Posts: 20
(8/24/04 18:16)
Reply Taking A Stance RE: deaconess
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Steve had tried sending e-mail to Brenda direct but for some reason it didnt go through so he asked me to post it.

In Response to deaconess-Taking a stance;1.What Spirit do you feel was involved in bringing to your attention the various indiscretions that you have eluded to ?As I mentioned the Chief Apostle Urwyler informed me,so you can answer that for yourself.

2.What do you feel was the purpose of your being motivated to dig a bit deeper and find things?Please understand Im not a digger by nature. As "Interested" posted though if you have your telephone lines tapped and guests surveillanced and photographing of their cars & license plates ect.and your familys home privacy& security invaided ,you get to the bottom of it(refer to prior post of B-DAY party his wife had in 1991).

That post is just One of many such incidents. When Steve and his wife were allowed back, it was announced to them( by D. Ap Wagner) that two brothers were going to be HANDLING THE TRANSITION, one a Dist. Eld, second a Evangelist. After the first visit (long one) Steve and Lynn showed their side with documentation, letters, pictures, etc., the Dist. Elder graciously bowed out shortly there-after, the Ev. was also their new rector and as well as a good man.

The Ev. was told was told as other brothers present in a meeting (held by now retired Bishop,new Bishops great) that the Chief has let the "wolfs back amongst the sheep" and shortly thereafter a funeral Steve attended and went to shake same Bishops hand that " shaking his(Steves') hand was like shaking the devils hand". This same honest Ev. had in prior years been given the task by the D. Ap. when Steves' brothers' wife and 4 children attended the Divine Service to tell them that they were not welcome and are not allowed in Divine Services anymore).

His brother, Jeff, was prior to this insanity the rector of the Palatine Congregation. This Ev. had seen and heard and experienced enough, he moved away as to get away from the entire mess, the truth was so upsetting to him, I respect this man for always being honest and for in his way doing the only thing he felt he could do to preserve his faith after all the evilness his soul had seen and endured by these men.

Steves father, a faithful Priest of some 30 years, was notified by D. Ap. Kraus. YOU MUST CHOSE BETWEEN YOUR SON STEVE OR ME AND YOUR MINISTRY, IF YOU FOLLOW ME ILL EVEN MOVE YOU ANYWHERE YOU WANT-AWAY-AND YOU'LL NEVER BE IN WANT AGAIN for anything. Imagine a father being put in that situation.

There were documents I was asked to look into for Europe with questions from Zurich as to ongoing legal matters.A Swiss messenger was sent to meet with a attorney with a list of questions . They met at our conference room and I was even here too. When Steve got them both coffee and introduced them, he went to take leave as to give them privacy. The Swiss gentleman asked Steve to stay. That meeting went for hours and hours. So is this digging on Steves' part? " I think not".

3. Who does the Lord intend to be His hands? That's His call not mine. I personally feel that He works through men-woman, children, widows, widowers, etc. As we see in throughout the Bible, he even used the jaw bone of an ass.

4. "He then told me how the outcome would be". What IS the outcome? As far as to what the Chief Apostle Urwyler said, my wife and I have been married going on 28 years and she's my best friend but I haven't even told her everything. She has been with me on various occassions with both Chiefs. In 1985 the Chief Apostle Urwyler took my wife and I out for my birthday. When on October 24th 1992, our Chief Apostle Fehr denied writing or signing the letter of my supposed excommunication, she was by my side, as well as other times with both.

By the way, the text he picked (C. Ap Fehr) for the nest days Divine Service was Ephesians 5:10, very interesting, the whole 5th chapter is. Not that I keep secrets from her but as I was told "ther Lord will reveal all in His time". I will say this (with a happy heart) it will be soon! Not because I say so for I am nothing. He said that the GREATEST price paid for anything-ever- was that price paid for all of mankinds' soul salvation embodied in the work of God by Jesus Christ.

Do you think that such a price would have been paid and the sacrifices of all kinds for such a length of time to have it all come to what now is? Certainly not! A fruit tree was referred to. It's dug deep and takes much sweat and care. Yes it needs rain and even alot of fertilizer (@#%$) but its' final ripeness and color is reached in the beautiful Sun and the comforting warmth and light. I can't say it any better than that.

He said the "GRAND FINALE" prior to Christ coming will be that spiritual environment in every congregation where as cold and dark it may be else where, in Gods' house will be that ''SUNSHINE" of love and that WARMTH of forgiveness and that many who left who had been harmed over the years "within" the walls of Gods' house will come back and the focus of that time will be to love those who have been wounded in Gods house.

To the effect who is my brothers and sisters of faith,Will I Stand for them? One thing I've learned the hard way is just because someone sits in the same building, even in black and white, they're not always your true brothers and sisters,sorry to say(but that will change). The year before I got benched, I received 300-400 birthday cards. The year after I got benched, I received under 20-30.

I know people felt scared and intimidated. I understand it was a confusing time. I valued those 20-30 more than you can imagine. There were those who knew me well enough to know the truth. Those who are born and developed in the same womb under many of the same circumstances are also your brothers and sisters.My natural brothers (parents too) were dragged through the mud just because they had the same last name. Many that I would have never thought of even ,proved to be my brothers & sisters.

As said on prior post, I love all, I pray as God is my witness for those who even inflicted the pain and yes I wish all this were over and all were as one family of Christ (as the Chief described). There is just a natural caution that kicks in as to protect from further hurt. I live one day at a time, as an Apostle from Europe who I traveled much with said. Christ said ''DAILY ANEW MY STRENGTH IS GIVEN" and went on to explain "if it's Monday and you're already worried over something on Fridays' schedule, DON'T BE! Naturally prepare. This should be common sense, but on Friday when you awaken, Fridays' answers & Strength are there.

The Lord only gives us enough for this very day. When you try to deal with things out of your control for Friday or Thursday you already begin to feel down. When I read someone like Katherine, her replies, I see someone (even though as I believe she said she doesn't come anymore) who's very genuine, honest, sincere (sorry Katherine, don't mean to be a personal) but to me, she is my sister of faith and many others here too! I think Brenda would give her life for this work. I honestly don't know how her and Ken and others do it.

Light reveals all things and I'm not saying that there are not postings and comments where the motives of some are to me questioinable, but who knows what that souls' lived through and look what spirit has been teaching (so to speak) for years. But to FINALLY answer you deacons-YES I would and have stood up for many-THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I HAVE TO STAND OUT THOUGH!


PS - edited by breaking post into paragraphs to make for easier reading.

Edited by: BrendaP at: 8/24/04 18:26




(Post 21 was not made in the "Steve Pathmann" thread, therefore it wasn't included here)




peaches
Posts: 22
(8/28/04 13:05)
Reply Brendas suggestion to Steve
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Brenda:Steves at his summer house in Minnesota for a while,before he left suggested I check out our systems for any bugs,cookies ect. as per your experience with Ontario. We have had plenty of security for years Firewalls and Norton anti virus just to name a few.We used a differant highly recomended system.I was so shocked as to the results ,some similar to what you mentioned(locations)"high risk tracking cookies" 58 ,viruses =unbeleivable,I wont mention that number ,I have emails to our other companies to see how this could have gone through the level of security weve had.When I called Steve he suggested to me that I post it so others check too.




(Posts 23 and 24 were not made in the "Steve Pathmann" thread, therefore they weren't included here)




peaches
Posts: 25
(8/29/04 9:03)
Reply wild,wild,west reply
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re:wild wild west.Have you not read this entire thread?Brendas secured copies of apology's through other sources.Out of respect of the D.Dp. Freunds wishes they have not been posted.Your dates of actions are incorrect .The posting you refer to from Kevin is and has been totally proven incorrect.As I mentioned in prior posting ,Ive known Steve and been in his employ for many a year,Kevin was simply a delivery van driver who started weeks before this total insanity and left when instructed to by his father ,seldom exposed to Steve.His father was the new Ev. that was in part behind the problems as recorded in Switzerland.He wrote numerous letters on behalf of W.Vovak ,E. Wagner ,M.Kraus and I will say on his behalf terribly used by the same ,with the old promise of advancement.He is dead now and realized before passing away how he had been used were told by a brother closest to him.Yes that is Steves picture(at least you got one thing correct).Write the D.Ap. office and you will receive a copy of the apology Im sure,or call any member in Chicago Dist. Call Bishop Orlofski (he worked with the D.Ap. on this 1-262-252-7194)Steve is gone till end of next week than call him you apparently have at least that much correct imfo on his business.



peaches
Posts: 26
(8/30/04 13:2
Reply Re;Erroneous Timeline
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Dear Amen7gew: As I mentioned earlier Steve is out of town at his summer house.He received a telephone call their this morning from someone monitoring the board about your posting.He immediately notified me and ask that I post the following ear Amen7gew: I want to personally thank-you for "again speaking up"not just on my behalf( although your kind words were most welcome)but I believe this could be but one person ,one who has along with his dear family already paid a great price for Gods Work and knowing you ,I know it was not an easy thing to do under the present circumstances.Thank-you for standing up once again for this great work of God .When you mentioned Pr.Noguchi who had written a letter from his sick bed only to be benched and shortly there-after died.Who's wife to this day still carries the hurt of her husband being DENIED A CHURCH FUNERAL(although she has graciously accepted the letter & Apology of the D.Ap. and does forgive,the scars still remain)and than when you mentioned about the"SERVING &LEADING " booklet(which I know you so welcomed when it came out)it could only be one person,as was mentioned on the post of peaches of 8/24/04 about.I sincerely THANK-YOU for once again standing up from the bottom of my heart.Its up to you but I think it would help many confused ones if you identified yourself,I naturally understand either way and as the Chief Apostle Urwyler used to say "The Eye of the Lord Sees All" Thank you again SP PS The last years have been hard on many a honest soul in this the work of our Great God,it will only change when WE all do ,from top to bottom and see that every soul ever hurt within the walls of Gods house is LOVED and feels this love.I believe that requires (as this servant did)opening up.



peaches
Posts: 27
(8/30/04 15:03)
Reply Clarification
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Dear Deaconess &Plcomp;Again,sorry for the delayed answers,Im only the typist on this one today:I was asked to please mention on Steve's behalf the following:1.The present Dist. Leaders of Chicago are from (for the most part)after the damage was done.The Dist.Elder over the congregation Steve goes to is really an honest good guy,that he likes very much.Most of those responsible the old Bishop,Dist.Leaders that were in this Bishops pocket(Bishop was best Buddie of W.Vovak and moved from Motown to Chicago)are gone now and I think that some even of them their eyes have been opened,so please don't feel bitter towards them. One even apologized for following blindly and being a part of it all.Again,you are what you eat,they got fed alot and remember who was doing the cooking.2. About going to another church;I never once had a desire to go else where,"home is where the heart is"and from my experience "theres no place like home".Yes,I was contacted by MANY of the factions that broke away from NAC-Rockenfelder etc. I don't know how they got my name even .But I never responded to their offers.I don't judge any of them either,why they left is between them and God.I do realize there are many wonderful churches out there too and I respect them for their good works,again their futures are between them and God.As for me and my family we had the WOL and Sunday school-confirmation all at home.We had a little box for offerings and once a month they were sent to Switzerland.3.Brenda mentioned the Apostle Arie Boer,we spoke at least once a week for over 10 years ,as was mentioned I and two other benched priests went to Australia for his funeral .He was a great teacher in forbearance,love and Loyalty to the Lord as manifested in Christs teachings in the NAC.I never could of carried it all without his support & teaching and other great souls in this the work of the Lord.Thank-you SP




(Post 28 was not made in the "Steve Pathmann" thread, therefore it wasn't included here)



peaches
Posts: 29
(8/30/04 17:54)
Reply replys
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Dear Deaconess:I didnt mean you were bitter,I just meant to "prevent"further bitterness on everybodys part.God knows we certainly can use more with the devotion and zest & energy you have! Dear Ed:I heard that the Apostle was either back or the bridge has been constructed by both sides.



peaches
Posts: 30
(9/3/04 17:47)
Reply Laura's kind words of comfort
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Dear Laura: This morning as Steve came in and walked by he said "Whats new" ,I read him your kind well wishes to us and to "Amen".I don't mean to sound dramatic but it went right through him(me too) .Yesterday when you posted it was of special personal significance to him.On behalf of Steve and I -Thank-you from the bottom of our hearts!



peaches
Registered User
Posts: 31
(9/17/04 16:52)
Reply autoc
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Dear Auto C : I know Steve as well as anyone I think and would like to answer your question concerning how he feels about DA Freund.He knew it took guts(wisdom ) to write the letter of apology.He was impressed with their one on one meeting.By having this wonderful event for the youth in Colorado was a big step in the right direction he felt.When he refers to resistance its aimed at the fact that anyone that brings NEW changes either in Church or Business usually meets with resistance.Do you think those in Canada (from old dynasty) were glad of him breaking the mold in writing the letter of apology
having a day of the youth that was so fruitful.Satin isn't going to just lye down and give up.There are issues Steves waiting for responses on from him that disappoints him personally that haven't been resolved,but that will come.Time will reveal all,ITS STILL THE LORDS WORK...



peaches
Registered User
Posts: 32
(9/17/04 17:46)
Reply karlaugust-Be the change you wish to see in the world
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This saying could & should be read as "be the change you wish to see in the Church" = Being the example of that Christ like nature mentioned earlier ,doing what we do motivated by LOVE <SINCERITY< SIMPLICITY etc. Being the first willing to make the move or even change within ourselves where needed .To your question -what would happen? It would certainly reveal what spirit lived in who and if one was to be in trouble for such Christ like GENUINE behavior it would reveal the spirit within the one or another .Also 15-20 years ago there wasn't a gift or tool such as this board to reveal the outcome.But I d rather be accused of trying to hard to do the right thing than not enough,I also go back to the words the C.Ap. Urwyler told Steve "THE EYE OF THE LORD SEES EVERYTHING",in that lies our Blessing.



peaches
Registered User
Posts: 33
(10/17/04 16:23)
Reply contradictions
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"Ecclesiasticus, 15th chapter 20th verse ="He hath commanded no man to do wickedly,neither hath he given any man licence to sin".



peaches
Registered User
Posts: 34
(10/18/04 15:04)
Reply Explanation
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Perhaps we should of listed the other two verses that go with the one mentioned.Ecclesiasticus 15th chapter,verses 18,19,20. "For the wisdom of the Lord is great, and HE is mighty in power ,and beholdeth ALL things:And his eyes are upon them that fear him,and he knoweth every work of man. He hath commanded no man to do wickedly,neither hath he given any man license to sin. (The Chief recently said when the word fear is mentioned in the English translation ,God Fear ect.that Respect is a more fitting translation for the word fear) To answer some of your other comments Deaconess;Steve has never not accepted the kindness or council of even one of Gods servants as implied with the story of the man praying not to drown.But when you get abused enough your VERY cautious as to who's help you accept.Anyone who REALLY knows Steve knows hes turned the other cheek so many times his neck hurts.Also this text IS from the C.Ap. Urwylers Bible.



peaches
Registered User
Posts: 35
(10/19/04 16:20)
Reply Truth
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Re; Deaconess replys; Thank-you kindly for your clarifications,they were taken out of the context you seemed to have meant them; We'll try to reply briefly to some of your questions; "Why you"- Very good question,he could of done much better in my book! "Deaf ear"-,not quite, it burdens me beyond your wildest imagination what even one soul needlessly carries.-"The Lord hasnt forsaken us but rather we him" I have never felt worthy enough to stand before our God,I offer my Best ,yet Ive never walked away from the offertory feeling proud of what I could bring to express my thankfuness.Or God now were even,rather I feel inadequate even in that department.-"Kraus treatment",why didnt you just walk away" This Doctrine of Christ is my life,my being ,my everything.Youve mentioned you have children and perhaps its a poor example ,but nomatter what they did or did to you ,could you walk away from them under any circumstance?Yes ,as I mentioned in earlier posts many break-away groups from the NAC and other churches for that matter (for I worked in many foreign countries,but also african-American congregations here in Chicago) have approached me to become active as a minister in their congregations.I love these people too and feel its Gods call whom he will choose on that day ,not mine and Im by no means better or more than them because I am NAC.But this is where after everything ,my soul still calls home."-What held you here"- Grace.... Referring to the- "Chief Apostles council" as you mentioned.On numerous occasions as I mentioned I was admonished to the future events by the Chief Apostle Urwyler.If anyone reading this has ever had the oppurtunity to be one on one with a Chief Apostle they will know its a life changing experience(or at least thats what it was to me) but being it was numerous times it was all the more engraved in my soul and made clear.I never felt closer to God(and NO hes not a God and he would of been the first to tell you that ,I never met a more humble man,but dont mistake humble for weak) When I heard him speak there was no doubt of anykind not even 1% ,what he saids is from God.Now after such a most moving chain of events (meetings) and than hilighted by receiving this Blessing through his ministry How or why would I follow a differant coarse? I dont have all the answers (very few actually) but I know the Path I am to follow,I only hope I can finish it.Because every day I seem to die a little more ,not my passion or desire but the overwhelming pain and sorrow that satin dishes out (and I realise thats not just to me).I would appreciate your prayers ,those of each one -God knows I need them.I am sorry to even one soul that may feel me a disappointment and I pray when the moment comes of the final fullfilment the Joy of each soul will open the door of understanding(including mine)as to why it had to be done this way.I hope this answers you deaconess and thank-you again.SP




peaches
Registered User
Posts: 36
(10/21/04 14:12)
Reply Reply to Peter PPE,Truth
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Dear PeterPPE;I told myself before my last couple postings that I was going to stay away and off the Board for awhile and I hope to after this.I realize so many here are sincere and concerned souls and their pain penetrates to deeply for me to carry and be able to do nothing about it all but pray(not to make light of prayer)and your correct Peter PPE its year after year.I do believe there is some sincerely trying(in office) but much more is needed AND NOW in my opinion. You said(I Quote)"I feel the time has come for us to clearly define and understand"OBEDIENCE OF FAITH" & "FOLLOWING WITHOUT QUESTION" and accepting everything as the "WILL OF GOD" or "THAT GOD ALLOWED IT ".I can honestly say to you that in all the times with the Chief Apostle Urwyler those words or even the implication of their meaning was never once used.Those are and were manufactured phrases of men that had their own agenda.Im not saying in translating a Divine Service these weren't used to possibly cover what a Chief tried to convey-but it was not in the line or thought of the Chief(at least the first two phrases)I personally cant picture Christ using those two especially either.Especially after his admonishments as to whom to listen to. We mentioned the text in Ecclesiasticus 15th chapter 18,19,20th verses;THIS CAME FROM THE CHIEF APOSTLE URWYLERS BIBLE as someone referred to before.In closing (if I may) A true SERVANT(Blessed & Sent) by God will need not DEMAND OBEDIENCE WITHOUT QUESTION TYPE FOLLOWING.They will or do radiate such a balm and joy for the soul that within such ingredients lies their credentials and a true servant need not demand obedience in following and look how Christ loved to answer questions sitting for hours-days even ,be it from children or adults.Each of us will be held accountable for our own actions and deeds ,does anyone actually think that if they follow what is wrong ,or worse even participate in it that someone will step up on their behalf before God and say "but I told them to do it" and that will make a wrong -right?No,certainly not ,we are each responsible for our actions and so its important to ask questions(honest ones,not deceitful type with alternative motives naturally).When it comes to following,as I mentioned before -for me-I was told something from a Chief Apostle and yes I asked questions of which I can honestly say he welcomed ,but now I try to follow to the letter what I was told.In closing, once years ago in the C.Ap.Bishoffs time around a large table with the Chief were seated Apostles .One said "OH Chief Apostle if you told me to jump off a mountain or tall building I would -without question"this same Apostle looked at the one next to him(I knew the one now being asked personally)and said "well wouldn't you?"My friend,the Apostle replied yes... if the Chief went first ! I think that saids it best...Thank-you



Steve Pathmann
Registered User
Posts: 1
(11/5/04 19:05)
Reply Re; calamity & watson-their comments & thoughts
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"I think Steve should spill the beans or shut up" , "Moldy old stories" , "Beleive the guy (Chief Apostle) who sold him out is his ultimate bearer of Blessing " , "Steve comes here and tells everyone how he and others were wronged by Kraus,yet in same breath he fawns all over Urwyler & Fehr" ," IF YOUR NOT GONNA DO SOMETHING WITH WHAT GOD HIMSELF HAS GIVEN YOU THEN SIT DOWN ,SHUT UP AND DO AS YOUR TOLD AND QUIT YOUR WHINING" ,"Otherwise get off your behind and do something for Gods people already" Dear Calamity , Watson;I would personally like to respond to your statements.First ,there was a thread on NAC Board some years ago about me.I didnt jump in ect. it was false as proven,yet every customer ,friend or family member who went to search engine to find my companies websites were exposed to it,including my business associates ,banks ect. On May 27th 2004 again it comes up from a thread begun by Particapant over the reading of the Dist.Ap.Fruends letter to the congregations.I was telephoned at home that Sunday it was posted within minutes.A loyal friend (co-worker) known as peaches responded nearly after a month of daily posting taking place.In these 5 months or so I personally answered either Brenda (who I have a great respect for)or peaches 5times and it was clearly stated as from me.By our Dear Friend Sister Noguchi's example I choose to use my own name now and knowing the names of many Administration Brothers who post .Many their favorite past-time being reading this board , for the clarification purpose of all, I will continue to.But to comment on just a few topics ....There has been (besides the threads and postings of years ago) close to 16,318.views over topics related to me and over 400 replys (this number takes in to account when format changed and numbers started from 0 again) I could be off some one way or another ,if your a bean counter Brenda could clarify .YET Im a "Whiner" you claim.......Im sorry you find such factual events as "Moldy" For me there hasnt been a single day I could take the weight of its burden off. I apoligise from the bottom of my heart to both of you and every single soul out there if I have not carried or handled my cross as the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ gave me the light and direction through our Chief Apostle Urwyler to see and do it. As far as the Chief Apostles stances on it all,yes I would of liked things handled differant in certain ways,Im human and Im tired of it all.But I still beleive(more than ever) in the value of that "ministry" ,its importance in the process of our souls salvation and without it -well for me Im dependant on it for the purpose for which out of Christs love I beleive it was established.I dont beleive in as you say "Divinely Inspired business dealings".I beleive that theres alot of work yet to be done and major changes are needed.First being mentioned in WOM 11/04 "The First Works" ww.nak.org/text/8-gb.html .Second in the WOL supplement of July 2004 ,I think it was 12 pages long.Those two tools would be the start.In Closing on page 11 of this thread is more imfo about the Noguchi matter.Pr. Mel Noguchi was my among my best of friends.Sister Noguchi (as have all the wives and mothers and children -souls) showed alot of class by her posting ,its terrible what she as a single mother has had to go through.Shes (for those who dont have the privledge of knowing her)is the retired Dist.Elder Sparers oldest daughter.He worked in the Troy Str. (Chicago) church office for some 40 years.He also is a dear friend of mine ,now living in Michigan.Ill just say this,He was threatened By the D.Ap.(of that time) to have his meager pension taken away if he didnt "Drop it"...Again,in closing my name is Steven Pathmann my e-mail is samoasteve@aol.com -if you have something to say to me ,please use your God given name and say it to me! Thank-you for reading this post and Id like to thank from the bottom of my heart those who have prayed for us , prayed for "ALL" who have lived this school.I respect the MANY on this board who are so committed to Christs Work of LOVE.If we dont have the Love of Christ(and one another) what do we have? Thank-you

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