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Unlike the official site, where everything is in oneness, over here various participants have strong opinions which may not agree with the official NAC party line, be warned. Open discussion means “within the confines of any rules that the Founder and Admins have deemed necessary to promote the stated purpose of this board”.

Thank you

Johann Bischoff

CA Leber releases a Statement Concerning the Message of CA Bischoff (the Botschaft)

DirkNow responds :

"... I have never seen anything like this statement. Endless equivocation. Craven, post-hoc rationalizations. And an undying refusal to call a spade a spade and label the botschaft for what it was: the deluded ravings of a senile megalomaniac.

Note also the way that Leber speaks out of both sides of his mouth. On the one hand, he is sorry for those few sentient beings that resisted the message and suffered as a result. But on the other, he holds out those that accepted the message and made preparations (undoubtedly including the vilification of the infidels) as the faithful souls whose obedience was exemplary. So which group was right, and which group was wrong? You can't have it both ways, unless you are the New Apostolic Church."

~ ~

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Spiritual Abuse

Author	Comment
whichway2go	Spiritual Abuse		Lead	[-]
Posts: 190 12/20/2010 15:58	Tags : None Remove this ad This is a link from "Worldwide Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God" survivors. They have many links that seem helpful for this type of abuse. I hope some of you find it to your liking. http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/recovery/index.htm Note: This thread is intended to be a resource for those looking for help. It would be appreciated if debates were held on another thread. Thank you for your respect of other people's healing process. (edited to add whichway2go's "thread purpose" statement - C) Edited 1 time by Calamity 01/14/2011 08:36.
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whichway2go		#1		[-]
Posts: 190 01/04/2011 22:29	I have heard from some people I've talked with that they do not want to post on the board because they fear they will get harped on or put down. I've noticed that some board members here will be welcoming but the instant someone talks they get stuck in an argument that they didn't intend to be in. I don't see many new people commenting. I have lurked on this board for years before I even put in one comment because of this. I was angry, hurt, confused, scared to death for my spirit/soul even though I was a hardcore NAC. I thought I was going through "tests of faith" and was being challenged. I wanted to talk about my feelings but I saw others get shot down so I hesitated to post anything. I wanted to talk about my faith and how I liked it and at the same time talk about how hurtful the higher ups were. At first look at the board and back then being a TB'er I was so upset with how others talked about the NAC. I was seriously offended and hurt that anyone could and would talk about the church like that. Yet I didn't understand they had been through deep pain and hurt; and they were letting out feelings and experiences they had gone through. I needed and wanted help; a listening ear. I think this can be a place of understanding and help from such horrible deeds done by some of this organization. I am not saying the NAC as a whole is bad. All organized religions have these issues and some are better and some worse. I have witnessed people being wonderful christians and practicing what they preached and I have see the worst of them, too. On the other hand, I have seen non religious people be better than some "christians". I feel that I have been spiritually abused by some of the people in my life as a NAC. That is why I came to the NACboard in the first place was for some help and understanding and some camaraderie. Coming here was the best thing that has happened to me. I read up on books and articles that people have suggested and have opened my eyes to the things that helped me start to heal. I would like to post items on spiritual abuse and those that lurk or are curious and that need help can find it here. I know that some do not want to expose themselves but if anyone would like to contribute healing posts, books, articles, websites, suggestions, thoughts, peace and beauty by all means please do! Here are some ex-members of other faiths that have been spiritually abused. I'm sad for them but it helps to see how they got away and started to grow in their love for God and healed. http://spiritualabuse.org/experiences.html
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klitzke		#2		[-]
Posts: 2716 01/05/2011 09:42 ezOP	Excellent post. This board was started with the idea that there would be minimal interference with what people post ( you know, something opposite of what we were encouraged to do by the NAC, back in the day. But things are different now ) So strong opinions are often expressed. I've also noticed that ex-NACs tend to go in different directions after breaking free, some become born again, evangelical conservative christians at one extreme, atheists at the other, or just don't give a ____ one way or the other. So of course you are going to get some very opinionated responses. The other factor is the very same anonymity the the board provides allows people to say things that they may never say to the same person in a face to face situation. I've always maintained that one just needs to ignore some of the harsher comments and just keep posting and interacting with those that are meeting your needs at the time. As you also pointed out, there are many that only read and observe, so remember that posts are not just a response the immediate post above but also being read and digested by quite a few others for better or worse.
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plcomp	Spiritual Abuse	#3		[-]
Posts: 859 01/06/2011 00:07	Katherine (I think it was) mentioned the book "The Subtle power of Spiritual Abuse" previously on NACboard. I bought it while I was still a disillusioned exNAC but not atheist yet. Anyways, I recall clearly recognizing the spiritual abuse by the NAC, while reading this book. I'll recommend it to people wishing to leave the NAC. O.K. so now, I'm atheist. [And, by the way, I have to mention that the two books that influenced me the most profoundly, were:- "50 reasons people give for believing in a god" by Guy P Harrison; and "Godless", by Dan Barker. Sure, I love the militancy of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris's books - but they're more for already born-again atheists. Perhaps, I'd say, read The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse 1st, just to help you escape from the NAC - and then move on to Dan Barker and Guy P Harrison] These days I've still got "The subtle .." on my bookshelf. I've wanted to throw it away a few times, but then everytime I look at it & page through it, I decide against it - I keep on saying to myself:- Rather hold on to this: One day you may be bored; TBN may be unavailable and then this book will serve as very good alternative comedy. I'd also like to rename the subtitle of the book as follows:- Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within Other Churches (but not ours). I realize I'm perhaps rambling a bit here, but I gotta say:- If you read this book as Atheist, there's just NO distinction:- RELIGION = SPIRITUAL ABUSE [Although I'll admit that on a scale of 1 to 10, some religions / churches / cults may perhaps be classified closer to 5 or 4 ... never 1]
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BatP	"Leaving the Fold"	#4		[-]
Posts: 1976 01/06/2011 11:51	A self-help book and a website worth exploring. You can hear Dr. Winell speak about "Religious Trauma Syndrome" on YouTube, as well.
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BatP	...about four years ago...	#5		[-]
Posts: 1976 01/06/2011 17:27	...the foundation finally cracked when, late one night, I tuned in to BookTV and watched Sam Harris. Later that week, I read Thomas Paine's, "The Age of Reason". In the vortex that followed (it did take some time and much more research), not only did the NAC get sucked out of my life, but so did God. I admit to being agnostic, but so doubtful of His existence, as to be more agnostic atheist than anything else. In other words, if there is a supreme being, it is not at all like the Abrahamic deity. Then I started to consider the stages of my life and how the NAC had robbed me of so much. It disallowed so much adventure and experience, and cost so dearly in guilt, time and treasure. Then I became very angry with the dogma and the men who push it. I've known many wonderful New Apostolics to be sure, so I hold most of them innocent and still in esteem. But the "No Solicitors" sign hangs predominantly on my door. I'm done with men speaking for God. God can speak for Himself. Thomas Paine wrote it best himself, As it is necessary to affix right ideas to words, I will, before I proceed further into the subject, offer some observations on the word 'revelation.' Revelation when applied to religion, means something communicated immediately from God to man. No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and, consequently, they are not obliged to believe it. Edited 1 time by BatP 01/06/2011 17:40.
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whichway2go		#6		[-]
Posts: 190 01/07/2011 12:45	BatP says, " I'm done with men speaking for God. God can speak for Himself." <------so true! and thanks for those links. I have read "The subtle power of spiritual abuse". I've loaned it out to a few people and I found it very helpful. I am currently reading, " Toxic Faith: Understanding and overcoming religious addiction" by Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton. It's almost as if they wrote that book on Kraus himself. I am feeling a freedom I have never felt before, I knew it was there and now I have it. I am finally happy within my spirit.
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plcomp	Age of Reason	#7		[-]
Posts: 859 01/07/2011 15:57	Bat, thanks for reminding me of Thomas Paine. Most definately, he contributed! (As did Ingersoll).
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Trike Troll	When it comes to the NAC, too many yes's for me!	#8		[-]
Posts: 2534 01/07/2011 18:49 Perma-Banned	Are you "UNDER THE INFLUENCE" of a destructive group or belief system? Find out with this SELF QUIZ: Does your group discourage doubts, criticism or ideas that differ from their belief system? Yes____No____ Do you tend to rationalize whatever the group does even when it goes against your sense of right and wrong? Yes___ No___ Do you often feel exhausted from lengthy group activities, meetings and projects? Yes___ No___ Does your group have its own unique words, cliches, slogans, chants, prayers and doctrinal phrases that reinforce the group viewpoint? Yes___ No___ Are doubts viewed as a lack of faith, dedication, commitment or disloyalty? Yes___ No___ Have "your thoughts" become "the enemy?" Yes___ No___ Do you often find yourself doing more and more things in the group or because of group peer pressure that you would not have done on your own? Yes___ No___ Does your group publicly humiliate or criticize members? Yes___ No___ Does your group have a system of punishments and rewards for behavior? Yes___ No___ Group paranoia: Does your group obsessively think other groups or people with different beliefs are out to get them? Yes___ No___ Does the prospect of leaving your group seem scary, difficult? Yes___ No___ Do you feel the need to leave in secret? Yes___ No___ Have you been told something bad might happen if you leave? Yes___ No___ Does your group/belief system think they have/are the only or highest truth, or have the solution for the world’s problems? Yes___ No___ Are your leader’s ideas or belief system considered beyond reproach or sacred? Yes___ No___ Do you follow a particular individual or belief system that requires unquestioning obedience and loyalty? Yes___ No___ ) Do members of your group feel specially chosen, superior, exclusive, elite? Yes___ No___ Do you feel the need to save or convert others to your belief system or ideology? Yes___ No___ Is your group secretive to outsiders about its inner workings, teachings, activities or beliefs? Yes___ No___ Does your group equate purity and goodness to being in your group, and impurity or evil to those outside your group? Yes___ No___ Do you place your group’s mission or agenda above your own goals and ideals? Do group interests come before your own interest Yes___ No___ Do you find yourself thinking in a we-they, us-versus-them mind set? Yes___ No___ Does your group/system have a clear outside enemy? Yes___ No___ Do you see less and less of your family and friends who do not belong to your group or who do not subscribe to your group’s belief system? Yes___ No___ Does your group use frequent public testimonials, confessions, or sharings that reinforce the group’s mission or agenda? Yes___ No___ Is communication within, into and out of your group controlled or censored in any manner? Yes___ No___ Does your group criticize, shun, abandon or demean individuals who leave the group? Yes___ No___ Do members seek approval or get permission from group leader(s) for personal life choices? Yes___ No___ Do you feel pressured to attend meetings, events, lectures, seminars? And do you feel guilty if you don’t attend? Yes___ No___ Do you feel pressured to give a portion of your income to the group, or spend money on courses, books or special projects? Yes___ No___ Are the group’s financial needs more important than your own economic well-being? Yes___ No___ Does your group discriminate against anyone regarding race, gender, belief, or sexual orientation? Yes___ No___ Does your group have a totalitarian structure: a strict, top-down centralized control? Yes___ No___ Do you wonder if you have been in a destructive group? Do you... ...have difficulty forming new friendships and intimate relationships? Yes___ No___ ...have low self-esteem, poor self-image or loss of identity? Yes___ No___ ...have difficulty making simple decisions and choices? Yes___ No___ ...often feel depressed, anxious and nervous? Yes___ No___ ...feel isolated, lonely, guilty, cynical? Yes___ No___ ...feel like you are just now growing up, becoming a mature adult? Yes___ No___ ...have short-term memory difficulties? Yes___ No___ ...feel you have nothing to believe in? Yes___ No___ ...often feel anger and rage towards the group? Yes___ No___ ...have nightmares or unpleasant dreams? Yes___ No___ ...find it difficult or impossible to stop mental or other group ritualistic practices? Yes___ No___ This quiz has no scientifically predetermined number of "yes" answers to indicate a distructive group. However, answering "yes" to any of the above questions means you may need to examine your group and its influence in your life in those areas. Toxic NAC shock in question...with 1-4-5
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plcomp	Quizz	#9		[-]
Posts: 859 01/09/2011 15:21	Hmm ... Trike - had a quick look at that quizz. Of course, I've seen it before a few times - and it fits the NAC like a glove. Problem is:- All churches fits most of these criteria to some degree. Agreed, some more, some less than others. One example:- Do you feel the need to save or convert others to your belief system or ideology? O.K. so:- A Methodist may not feel compelled to convert an Anglican (well, I don't know - just guessing) BUT For bloody sure:- [Most] Methodist and Anglicans will feel absolutely COMPELLED to convert Atheist ME! Agreed: Atheist vs all other believers is the most drastic comparison. Yet, I maintain that (and yes, for some to a lesser, some to a more aggressive extend); an alarmingly high number of the criteria you posted will fit most if not all believers ...
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Haranguer		#10		[-]
Posts: 625 01/10/2011 22:46	Remove this ad whichway2go wrote: I was angry, hurt, confused, scared to death for my spirit/soul even though I was a hardcore NAC. I thought I was going through "tests of faith" and was being challenged. I wanted to talk about my feelings but I saw others get shot down so I hesitated to post anything. I wanted to talk about my faith and how I liked it and at the same time talk about how hurtful the higher ups were. Many of us have experienced, or are still experiencing, the same feelings. It's tough to get a handle on things when the only person you can bring a situation to is "the one who goes before you". In regards to posting here: Others can shoot me down on the board but I'm much more free over here than when I'm "in the fold". Maybe it's the anonymity I like but it's nice to not have to worry about what you say about NAC and think you're being branded a malcontent. Asking hard questions has been encouraged everywhere in my life except church. whichway2go wrote: At first look at the board and back then being a TB'er I was so upset with how others talked about the NAC. I was seriously offended and hurt that anyone could and would talk about the church like that. Yet I didn't understand they had been through deep pain and hurt; and they were letting out feelings and experiences they had gone through. I needed and wanted help; a listening ear. You're not the only one who was taken back. I know who some of the people are on the board and was originally appalled when reading some of their comments. After stepping away from the computer and thinking about what they were saying, a realization set in. I know these people to be honest and trustworthy. They may be writing things that are difficult to accept (at first) but many of the situations, stories and debates are enlightening (and mostly true). I'm thankful to have a place to post, even if nobody reads it. Just writing my thoughts down is providing a way to work through this journey of where I fit (or don't fit) in the NAC. whichway2go wrote: I think this can be a place of understanding and help from such horrible deeds done by some of this organization. I am not saying the NAC as a whole is bad. All organized religions have these issues and some are better and some worse. I have witnessed people being wonderful christians and practicing what they preached and I have see the worst of them, too. On the other hand, I have seen non religious people be better than some "christians". Agreed! There are some in the organization who have done some horrible things and this board only scratches the surface...really. At the same time there were people who never stood behind an altar but who lived lives that were perfect examples of what Christians really should be. Non Religious People - Two of my closest partners in major school projects were atheists. They are also two of the finest people you could ever meet. whichway2go wrote: I feel that I have been spiritually abused by some of the people in my life as a NAC. That is why I came to the NACboard in the first place was for some help and understanding and some camaraderie. Coming here was the best thing that has happened to me. I read up on books and articles that people have suggested and have opened my eyes to the things that helped me start to heal. I would like to post items on spiritual abuse and those that lurk or are curious and that need help can find it here. I know that some do not want to expose themselves but if anyone would like to contribute healing posts, books, articles, websites, suggestions, thoughts, peace and beauty by all means please do! I'm just recently started my journey on this board but appreciate the books and articles you and others have posted. The biggest challenge is deciding which ones to read first, second, third, etc. Thank you to all who have posted so far. This board has also helped me start to reconnect with family members who had "grown distant" because they had not been "in the center of the fold" for many years. This has reminded me how important they are and how much the activities of NAC have separated many families...including mine.
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plcomp		#11		[-]
Posts: 859 01/11/2011 01:19	I'm thankful to have a place to post, even if nobody reads it. Just writing my thoughts down is providing a way to work through this journey of where I fit (or don't fit) in the NAC. H, I fully agree with you here! Even without posting, just writing one's thoughts down is an extremely clarifying / revealing / (self)helpful action. When you write your thoughts down, you are actually using your brain, eyes and hands (and if, like me, you're in the habit of talking to yourself - even better!). In terms of books, there's a wealth of stuff available on the 'net, including essays from Bertrand Russell; Ingersoll and Thomas Paine. Plus those books I recommended - they're really very, very good!
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whichway2go		#12		[-]
Posts: 190 01/11/2011 11:01	Here are some books on spiritual abuse. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/books/abuse.html If you are facebook here are some good links and there are others that you can connect with having the same issues http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Spiritual-Abuse-Awareness/156204347736603 http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Spiritual-Abuse-Recovery/170742302956299 I wish there was a recovery site for NAC's, I want those to be exposed for what they have done. I know to much and it lays heavy on my heart.
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Calamity	It all gets read	#13		[-]
Posts: 6590 01/11/2011 11:18 Ne'er-do-well	Haranguer wrote: I'm thankful to have a place to post, even if nobody reads it. Just writing my thoughts down is providing a way to work through this journey of where I fit (or don't fit) in the NAC. Even though discussions are kind of slow lately, trust me, everything gets read. Post away - it's cathartic! whichway2go wrote: I wish there was a recovery site for NAC's, I want those to be exposed for what they have done. I know to much and it lays heavy on my heart. The recovery site is right here! The NACBoard helped me greatly, the many discussions (and even the loud arguments!) allowed me to solidify and firm up my beliefs, becoming comfortable with those thoughts and ideas in my own skin without the need for anyone else's approval. Exposing the injustices and those who perpetrated the abuses may or may not happen, and even when it does, those within the fold will justify the actions of these cretins because of the "higher purpose" their deluded minds think they're serving. But you'll feel better for seeing your words and experiences published here for the entire world to see! <--- \| http://newapostasy.blogspot.com \| \| Magical rune/tarot: The Blasted Tower \| ---> Edited 1 time by Calamity 01/11/2011 11:29.
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whichway2go		#14		[-]
Posts: 190 01/11/2011 23:08	I'm not a big fan of wikipedia but here is a definition of Spiritual Abuse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_abuse Spiritual abuse occurs when a person in religious authority or a person with a unique spiritual practice misleads and maltreats another person in the name of God or church or in the mystery of any spiritual concept. Spiritual abuse often refers to an abuser using spiritual or religious rank in taking advantage of the victim's spirituality (mentality and passion on spiritual matters) by putting the victim in a state of unquestioning obedience to an abusive authority. Spiritual abuse is the maltreatment of a person in the name of God, faith, religion, or church, whether habitual or not, and includes any of the following: Psychological and emotional abuse Any act by deeds or words that demean, humiliate or shame the natural worth and dignity of a person as a human being Submission to spiritual authority without any right to disagree; intimidation Unreasonable control of a person's basic right to make a choice on spiritual matters False accusation and repeated criticism by negatively labeling a person as disobedient, rebellious, lacking faith, demonized, apostate, enemy of the church or God Prevention from practicing faith Isolation or separation from family and friends due to religious affiliation Physical abuse that includes physical injury, deprivation of sustenance, and sexual abuse Exclusivity; dismissal of an outsider's criticism and labeling an outsider as of the devil Withholding information and giving of information only to a selected few Conformity to a dangerous or unnatural religious view and practice Hostility that includes shunning, (relational aggression, parental alienation) and persecution Characteristics Researchers conceptualize a set of discernible characteristics of spiritual abuse. Ronald Enroth in Churches That Abuse identifies five categories: Authority and Power - abusive groups misuse and distort the concept of spiritual authority. Abuse arises when leaders of a group arrogate to themselves power and authority that lacks the dynamics of open accountability and the capacity to question or challenge decisions made by leaders. The shift entails moving from general respect for an office bearer to one where members loyally submit without any right to dissent. Manipulation and Control - abusive groups are characterized by social dynamics where fear, guilt, and threats are routinely used to produce unquestioning obedience, group conformity, and stringent tests of loyalty to the leaders are demonstrated before the group. Biblical concepts of the leader-disciple relationship tend to develop into a hierarchy where the leader's decisions control and usurp the disciple's right or capacity to make choices on spiritual matters or even in daily routines of what form of employment, form of diet and clothing are permitted. Elitism and Persecution - abusive groups depict themselves as unique and have a strong organizational tendency to be separate from other bodies and institutions. The social dynamism of the group involves being independent or separate, with diminishing possibilities for internal correction and reflection. Outside criticism and evaluation is dismissed as the disruptive efforts of evil people seeking to hinder or thwart. Life-style and Experience - abusive groups foster rigidity in behavior and in belief that requires unswerving conformity to the group's ideals and social mores. Dissent and Discipline - abusive groups tend to suppress any kind of internal challenges and dissent concerning decisions made by leaders. Acts of discipline may involve emotional and physical humiliation, physical violence or deprivation, acute and intense acts of punishment for dissent and disobedience. Agnes and John Lawless argue in The Drift into Deception that there are eight characteristics of spiritual abuse, and some of these clearly overlap with Enroth's criteria. They list the eight marks of spiritual abuse as comprising: charisma and pride, anger and intimidation, greed and fraud, immorality, Enslaving authoritarian structure, Exclusivity, Demanding loyalty and honor, New revelation. Although some of these points form aspects of a strong and healthy society (e.g. respect for proper authority, loyalty and honor), the basis of spiritual abuse is when these characteristics are overstretched to achieve a desired goal that is neither supported by spiritual reality nor by the human conscience. Evidence With Spiritual abuse it is often very difficult to find any evidence of abuse. Victims often fail to realize what is happening due to peer pressure or the use of guilt feelings in relation to obedience towards the leaders of a church/group/fellowship or cult, etc. which can be masked as obedience towards God. As cited by Ronald Enroth in Churches That Abuse, control-oriented leadership is at the core of all such religious groups. Additionally, as interpersonal relations in "spiritual government" environments are considered above the "worldly" need of documented accountability, rarely are conversations or spiritually abusive situations recorded for historical reference and archiving. The usual attitude of delegated or "deputy" authority in a spiritually abusive environment is such that the abusive one(s) consider their speaking to be absolute - fully expecting immediate submission and unquestioned obedience. Any reticence or hesitation is interpreted as hidden rebellion against the "deputy". Generally, the attitude exists that if anyone has concerns or uneasy feelings about spiritually abusive activities, they are accused of not being in submission to authority and could even suffer from extreme character assassination (both privately and publicly) in order to diminish the effect of any desire of clarification that could liberate themselves and/or others from a spiritually abusive person/situation. Disengagement Leaving an Abusive Church - Is normally a process which can take a few months or even years. Children in a spiritually abusive situation may be unable to leave. For those who are able to leave, it can be extremely difficult and painful both emotionally and psychologically. In certain cases, an individual who feels spiritually abused will have to leave immediate family and friends behind and even suffer rejection by them. It is important for such a person to get help, such as counseling from "outsiders", who are not a part of the spiritually abusive group. They also need support from new peers because of the effects of spiritual abuse that will continue to affect them. This victimized person needs to learn a new way of looking at the world so this process literally turns their world up-side-down; it would be impossible to walk this path alone.
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plcomp		#15		[-]
Posts: 859 01/12/2011 00:24	The recovery site is right here! The NACBoard helped me greatly I was just about to say the same thing! Yes, I don't visit NACboard that often any more - I guess I've "moved on" - but there's absolutly no denying the the "spiritual counselling" I've received right here. And, the other great thing about NACboard is that it truly allows for all sorts of people. * We have people who seems to have decided to stick to the NAC - but refuse to be pushed around any more and prefer to fight for change from within. (Deaconess?) * Then we have people who have left the NAC, and found a spiritual home elsewhere (Laura?) * There are also TB'ers who will twist the truth to keep on defending the NAC (what happened to good old Kevin?) * And of course, people like myself and Calamity who's become atheists and now think religion is silly. Boy! And I can't seem to find a group in which to fit Katherine! - Her educated; politically savvy; fiery; emotional and supportive posts sure was a great help!
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whichway2go	Swaying in the tree of abuse	#16		[-]
Posts: 190 01/12/2011 11:26	Some people that are abused growing up enter in communities and systems that are abusive. The characteristics of a religious addict are, rigid parents, experiences of disappointment, low self-worth, and are victims of abuse. People are creatures of habit, and are comfortable with what they know. Some are drawn toward a rigid system because they have a hidden desire to fix it since they were unable to do it with their abusive parents or abuser. If someone had lost a parent, have been divorced or some type of abandonment they seek out a group that promises acceptance without risk. Cult leaders love this. Those having low self-worth feel alienated and isolated and they want a sense of belonging and acceptance. When they get this from the group they can sometimes let go of their bad childhood feelings now that they have a "family" and will defend them even if they are toxic. Many times victims of abuse lay within finding a father replacement which sets off a craving for that type of person. The abused are vulnerable and crave attention. When they get this, the leaders use and abuse them in the system by making them do things in the name of God. The abused see nothing wrong in what they are told or what to do, they are pleasing a person and getting positive attention. Delusion plays a very big role in abusive systems. They don't want to know how things are and aren't interested in reality. They are interested in how things should be and how everyone can work together to create the illusion that everything is the way it should be. Anyone not creating that illusion will be discounted or removed from the organization. When someone questions an organization they are showing that a follower has some doubts and lacks faith. They are perceived as a threat to the ministry or system. Remember when everything revolved around the earth? Those that questioned this belief were outcasts, and some even punished. The NAC wants people to follow them and be the center of their own wallets. Start questioning now! It's happening for a reason. The truth will set you free, sometimes it's bitter and hurts but you can heal faster with the truth then fester in lies.
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whichway2go	The Outcast	#17		[-]
Posts: 190 01/13/2011 10:43	"Toxic-Faith" (Chapter 7) The Five Roles in a Toxic-Faith System. By Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton The Role of the Outcast Of the five roles in the toxic-faith system, only one is not a religious addict or bound by toxic- faith. In most toxic-faith systems, someone can usually see the problem and confront it. Unwilling to play the games of the persecutor and co-conspirators, the person becomes the outcast. These people who stand up for what is right and challenge the system lose their jobs, friends, and church. They become lone voices in the wilderness, crying out for change that will not come as long as the persecutor dictates power, the co-conspirators manipulate the system, the enablers allow it to continue, and the victims fall in line with blind faith. When outcasts surface, they are identified as troublemakers and pushed out of the system as soon as possible. Forced to Rebel In a healthy system, individuals respect the person and position of leadership. For it to remain healthy, there must also be respect for the workers. Without respect, the "hired hands" are not allowed to disagree. If they don't like something, they are labeled complainers, negative thinkers, and not team players. The toxic-faith system has no place for anyone who challenges the integrity of disagrees with the methods of the leader. In a toxic-faith system, loyalty is equated with blind faith and complete agreement with the leader. Allegiance that requires overlooking the truth must be pledged daily. When allegiance evaporates, the confrontational workers of church members are labeled as outcasts and rejected by the organization. In this they are forced to rebel, since the organization allows no room for disagreement. Outcasts who challenge the delusion of the system are discredited immediately. The toxic-faith system creates a lose-lose situation where the outcasts must give up perceptions of reality or be willing to face complete rejection. Abandonment becomes the reward for trying to correct the ministry. Outcasts can interpret reality for themselves. Even when their perception of reality contradicts that of hundreds or thousands of followers, they can clearly see the problems and press for solutions to those problems. Outcasts are unimpressed by position or personhood. They love God and want to protect His people and His institutions from spiritual fraud. Those who are dedicated to God have little difficulty seeing others' dedication to egos and empires. They are forced to suffer for what they see because they refuse to watch people live a lie and abuse others. No toxic-faith system can handle this keen insight and dedication to truth.They must place their jobs and the church they love on the altar of sacrifice as they are forced to move on to a place free from toxic-faith. Hope for the Outcast God honours those who are willing to sacrifice their comfort at the altar of what is right. God has a special place in His heart for the hero's of a toxic-faith system. Those who stand up for God and tell the world the emperor has no clothes will receive their reward sooner of later. I have talked with some of these courageous outcasts, and I know of the pain and suffering they endured when they rejected the toxic-faith system. But all is not terrible for the outcasts. They feel good about finally taking a stand. They also feel the respect of others who value their courageous acts. The hope for these outcasts is that many great men and women of God and many great churches exist where God can be found. Rejected in one place, they will be honoured through the integrity of the organization's leadership. It then goes on to list the characteristics of the Outcast. Is not a religious addict Does not possess a toxic-faith Willingly stands alone Stands up for what is right Is willing to be rejected by others in a toxic-faith system Can discern right from wrong Commits to leaders having integrity Refuses to be victimized by false teaching and lack of integrity Speaks out for truth Usually loses a job within a toxic organization over concern for it Suffers rejection by friends after challenging the leadership of those in the toxic-faith system Often is treated as a leper Is begged by others in a toxic-faith system to support the persecutor Endures shame of others Refuses to respect of be manipulated by those in a toxic-faith system Sees the truth and acts on it even if it produces great personal pain Interprets reality for self Is motivated to protect people from spiritual fraud Is very dedicated to God and the people who seek a relationship with Him Commands respect of others for courage
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Trike Troll	So that's what some of us here on NACBoard are!	#18		[-]
Posts: 2534 01/13/2011 11:14 Perma-Banned	whichway2go wrote: "Toxic-Faith" (Chapter 7) The Five Roles in a Toxic-Faith System. By Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton It then goes on to list the characteristics of the Outcast. Is not a religious addict Does not possess a toxic-faith Willingly stands alone Stands up for what is right Is willing to be rejected by others in a toxic-faith system Can discern right from wrong Commits to leaders having integrity Refuses to be victimized by false teaching and lack of integrity Speaks out for truth Usually loses a job within a toxic organization over concern for it Suffers rejection by friends after challenging the leadership of those in the toxic-faith system Often is treated as a leper Is begged by others in a toxic-faith system to support the persecutor Endures shame of others Refuses to respect of be manipulated by those in a toxic-faith system Sees the truth and acts on it even if it produces great personal pain Interprets reality for self Is motivated to protect people from spiritual fraud Is very dedicated to God and the people who seek a relationship with Him Commands respect of others for courage Much better than being called whiners and disgruntled complainers. " New Apostolic Outcast" would be a good name for a song...with 1-4-5
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Trike Troll	Just a character	#19		[-]
Posts: 2534 01/13/2011 11:33 Perma-Banned	Here's another helpful resource that can help those researching Toxic faith Motivated to protect people from spiritual fraud...with 1-4-5
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whichway2go	Abusive Churches: Leaving Them Behind	#20		[-]
Posts: 190 01/17/2011 17:43	Remove this ad An excerpt written by Patrick Zukeran. Leaving an unhealthy church situation can leave some very deep scars. One example of the collateral damage is a very painful exit process. Those who leave an unhealthy church situation suffer isolation, bitterness, embarrassment, grief, and anger. This is coupled with confusion and wondering how God could let this happen. They also chide themselves for getting into such a group and staying in the organization as long as they did. Discerning Good from Abusive First, does the leadership invite dialogue, advice, evaluation, and questions from outside its immediate circle? Authoritarian pastors are threatened by any diverse opinions whether from inside or outside the group. Group members are discouraged from asking hard questions. The rule is, don't ask questions and don't make waves. A healthy pastor welcomes even tough questions, whereas in an unhealthy church disagreement with the pastor is considered disloyalty and is virtually equal to disobeying God. Spiritual language is used to disguise the manipulation that is going on. Questioners are labeled rebellious, insubordinate, and disruptive to the harmony of the body. Attempts are made to shut them down. The only way to succeed is to go along with the agenda, support the leaders, scorn those who disagree. Second, is there a system of accountability or does the pastor keep full control? Authoritarian pastors do not desire a system of accountability. They may have a board but it consists of yes-men whom he ultimately selects. Third, does a member's personality generally become stronger, happier, and more confident as a result of being with the group? The use of guilt, fear, and intimidation is likely to produce members with low self-esteem. Many are beaten down by legalism, while assertiveness is a sign that one is not teachable and therefore not spiritual. Fourth, are family commitments strengthened? Church obligations are valued more than family ones. Although many may verbally acknowledge the family as a priority, in practice they do not act like it. My colleagues at Probe, Don and Deanne, know of a mother who needed to gain special permission from her church to attend her son's wedding because it conflicted with a church event. The church made her feel guilty because she was choosing family over God. In another case, I know of women who missed their son and daughter's prom night to attend a church meeting which was held twenty minutes from their homes. The mindset is loyalty to God means loyalty to his church. One's spiritual quality is determined by one's allegiance to the church. Fifth, does the group encourage independent thinking, developing discernment skills, and creation of new ideas? Abusive churches resort to using pressure to have followers conform, and there is a low tolerance for any kind of difference in belief (of a non-essential nature) and behavior. There is a legalistic emphasis on keeping the rules, and a need to stay within set boundaries. Unity is defined as conformity. These leaders evaluate all forms of Christian spirituality according to their own prescribed system. Sixth, is the group preoccupied with maintaining a good public image that does not match the inner circle experience? Seventh, does the leadership encourage members to foster relations and connections with the larger society that are more than self-serving? Abusive churches thrive on tactics that create total dependence on the church while protecting and isolating themselves from the "sinful" world. Finally, is there a high rate of burnout among the members? In order to gain approval or prove you are a "true disciple," abusive churches require levels of service that are very taxing. If these are character traits of the group you are attending, you may be in an abusive church and should consider leaving the organization. When you realize you are in an authoritarian church, it is best to leave and make a complete break. Many members remain, thinking their presence will help change the situation, but this is highly unlikely. In fact, remaining may perpetuate the existence of the organization. Acknowledge that abuse has taken place. Denying this will only stall the recovery. Next, develop relationships with mature Christians who will listen to your story and support you in the healing process. In a safe and supporting environment you will be able to share your feelings, experiences, hopes, and struggles. Although it may be difficult, understand that recovery rarely happens in isolation. You must learn to trust again, even if it is in small, tentative stages. Expect to wrestle with some difficult emotions. Recognize that you will go through a grieving process-grief for lost years, lost friends, and the loss of innocence. You may also feel guilt, shame, and fear. It is natural to feel foolish and experience self-doubt. These are actually healthy emotions that should not be bottled up inside. Regret over poor decisions is a sign of growth, and you will eventually leave those emotions behind. Therefore, it is crucial to find people who will be supportive and help you address hard feelings. For some people, professional Christian counseling is necessary. Seek out a counselor who understands the dynamics of abusive systems and can provide the care and warmth needed.
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