No Official Position Paper on the role of Women in the NAC in Why can't a woman do it? Forum

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No Official Position Paper on the role of Women in the NAC

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deaconess	No Official Position Paper on the role of Women in the NAC		Lead	[-]
Posts: 9725 06/04/2012 11:15 NAC Thorn in the Side	Tags : None Remove this ad NAKI can issue formal position papers on Meat Consumption, Transexuality, Evolution... but they don't have the backbone to issue a position paper as to why women can not be ordained as ministers in the New Apostolic Church. Neither will they respond to any e-mails questioning why women are discriminated against in the NAC. Are the men in NAKI afraid that the women won't like the position they choose??? from http://www.nak.org/en/fai...-a-to-z/glossar/all/294/ NAC from A to Z All A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A Abortion Adoption Aids, HIV Animal protection Anxiety Apocrypha Apostle Ministry necessary for salvation Architecture of church buildings Artificial insemination B Baptism, Holy Bible Birth control Brain death C Chief apostle ministry Cloning Communion, Holy Conceptual model "Serving and leading" Confirmation Contraception D Depressions Divorce E Ecumenism Evolutionary theory G Gene Therapy H Heart death Holy Scripture Holy Spirit Honorary working Humanitarian aid Hundred forty-four thousand I Interdenominational marriages M Meat consumption Mission and Vision N Non-marital heterosexual relationships O Original Sin P Pastoral Care Phobias Politics Premarital sex Profession of faith S Sealing, Holy Self-Image Separation Service, Divine Sin Spirit, Holy Stem Cell Research Suicide Support for a dying person T Temptation Termination of pregnancy Transsexuality Treatment methods Trial marriages V Vision and Mission Y Youth care
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LACNAC		#1		[-]
Posts: 2225 06/04/2012 14:31 Forum Moderator	And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world. Then He made the earth round....and laughed and laughed and laughed...
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Love4Christ		#2		[-]
Posts: 1166 06/04/2012 16:21 NAC Reformer	LOL @ LACNAC! Yours in Christ, ~ G ~ "There is no wisdom save in truth. Truth is everlasting, but our ideas about truth are changeable. Only a little of the first fruits of wisdom, only a few fragments of the boundless heights, breadths and depths of truth, have I been able to gather." -Martin Luther "The word 'Christianity' is already a misunderstanding -- in reality there has been only one Christian, and he died on the Cross." - *Friedrich Nietzsche*
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deaconess	men can fake it, too	#3		[-]
Posts: 9725 06/04/2012 18:59 NAC Thorn in the Side	Less than ten years ago, I recall a female guest saying that she wouldn't want to bring her son up in the NAC because she didn't want him growing up thinking women were somehow inferior. At some point she was able to justify living with the discrimination and her son being exposed to it. She's since become NAC and continues to attend with her son. Probably ten years ago a NACBoard participant anonymously stated that he didn't want his daughters to grow up with limitations imposed by the NAC on women. He and his family continue to attend. Quite a few other NACBoarders have anonymously agreed through the years that the discrimination was wrong. I wonder how many of those anonymous writers took the time to share that same opinion with their apostle, etc. Why are people who "say" it's wrong, so silent when it comes to raising the issue with NAKI and fellow members of their congregations? How many rectors and ABs were at the 2010 Synod? Not one of them broached the topic. Kolb can prance around like a little peacock in a town hall meeting or youth gathering, play-acting sympathy when there's a female audience. It's nothing but fakery, as his failure to address the topic for input at the all-male 2010 Synod confirms.
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LACNAC		#4		[-]
Posts: 2225 06/04/2012 20:09 Forum Moderator	deaconess wrote: Less than ten years ago, I recall a female guest saying that she wouldn't want to bring her son up in the NAC because she didn't want him growing up thinking women were somehow inferior. At some point she was able to justify living with the discrimination and her son being exposed to it. She's since become NAC and continues to attend with her son. Probably ten years ago a NACBoard participant anonymously stated that he didn't want his daughters to grow up with limitations imposed by the NAC on women. He and his family continue to attend. Quite a few other NACBoarders have anonymously agreed through the years that the discrimination was wrong. I wonder how many of those anonymous writers took the time to share that same opinion with their apostle, etc. Why are people who "say" it's wrong, so silent when it comes to raising the issue with NAKI and fellow members of their congregations? How many rectors and ABs were at the 2010 Synod? Not one of them broached the topic. Kolb can prance around like a little peacock in a town hall meeting or youth gathering, play-acting sympathy when there's a female audience. It's nothing but fakery, as his failure to address the topic for input at the all-male 2010 Synod confirms. deaconess, I am assuming the first one was aimed directly at me (or at my wife). If I am mistaken, I apologize. That's being said, my wife still attends because she enjoys the friendships/people inthe local congregation. She doesn't agree with certain policies (or doctrinal) tenets of the NAC but I guess just chooses to ignore them. I can't, and won't speak for her and she is more than capable of speaking for herself. As far as the issue being addressed, let's face it, it doesn't matter what policy (or docrinal) issue one can bring up within the NAC, whether it be female roles, finance reform, or what music gets used, until there would be a change in the hierarchical structure, nothing will ever change and you can yell, moan, kvetch, gribe, etc. about it all you want and it won't make a difference.
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deaconess		#5		[-]
Posts: 9725 06/04/2012 20:31 NAC Thorn in the Side	LACNAC wrote: As far as the issue being addressed, let's face it, it doesn't matter what policy (or docrinal) issue one can bring up within the NAC, whether it be female roles, finance reform, or what music gets used, until there would be a change in the hierarchical structure, nothing will ever change and you can yell, moan, kvetch, gribe, etc. about it all you want and it won't make a difference. "I think you're on to something, lacnac!" says deaconess' in her 9,382nd post! Edited 1 time by deaconess 06/04/2012 20:38.
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LACNAC		#6		[-]
Posts: 2225 06/04/2012 22:54 Forum Moderator	deaconess wrote: LACNAC wrote: As far as the issue being addressed, let's face it, it doesn't matter what policy (or docrinal) issue one can bring up within the NAC, whether it be female roles, finance reform, or what music gets used, until there would be a change in the hierarchical structure, nothing will ever change and you can yell, moan, kvetch, gribe, etc. about it all you want and it won't make a difference. "I think you're on to something, lacnac!" says deaconess' in her 9,382nd post! Well, maybe we can start a pool here on the Board. Which will come first, the demise of the NAC (or meaningful reform, although I'm leaning towards the first) or deaconess' 10000th post on the NACBoard?
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strawberry		#7		[-]
Posts: 69 09/12/2012 22:32 Banned	deaconess wrote: Less than ten years ago, I recall a female guest saying that she wouldn't want to bring her son up in the NAC because she didn't want him growing up thinking women were somehow inferior. At some point she was able to justify living with the discrimination and her son being exposed to it. She's since become NAC and continues to attend with her son. Probably ten years ago a NACBoard participant anonymously stated that he didn't want his daughters to grow up with limitations imposed by the NAC on women. He and his family continue to attend. Quite a few other NACBoarders have anonymously agreed through the years that the discrimination was wrong. I wonder how many of those anonymous writers took the time to share that same opinion with their apostle, etc. Why are people who "say" it's wrong, so silent when it comes to raising the issue with NAKI and fellow members of their congregations? How many rectors and ABs were at the 2010 Synod? Not one of them broached the topic. Kolb can prance around like a little peacock in a town hall meeting or youth gathering, play-acting sympathy when there's a female audience. It's nothing but fakery, as his failure to address the topic for input at the all-male 2010 Synod confirms. Deaconess - it takes courage to do that. Some people might not have it yet. I only regret that I didn't show my courage sooner than I did. I think you are very brave.
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deaconess		#8		[-]
Posts: 9725 09/13/2012 13:17 NAC Thorn in the Side	Remove this ad LACNAC wrote: deaconess wrote: Less than ten years ago, I recall a female guest saying that she wouldn't want to bring her son up in the NAC because she didn't want him growing up thinking women were somehow inferior. At some point she was able to justify living with the discrimination and her son being exposed to it. She's since become NAC and continues to attend with her son. Probably ten years ago a NACBoard participant anonymously stated that he didn't want his daughters to grow up with limitations imposed by the NAC on women. He and his family continue to attend. Quite a few other NACBoarders have anonymously agreed through the years that the discrimination was wrong. I wonder how many of those anonymous writers took the time to share that same opinion with their apostle, etc. Why are people who "say" it's wrong, so silent when it comes to raising the issue with NAKI and fellow members of their congregations? How many rectors and ABs were at the 2010 Synod? Not one of them broached the topic. Kolb can prance around like a little peacock in a town hall meeting or youth gathering, play-acting sympathy when there's a female audience. It's nothing but fakery, as his failure to address the topic for input at the all-male 2010 Synod confirms. deaconess, I am assuming the first one was aimed directly at me (or at my wife). If I am mistaken, I apologize. That's being said, my wife still attends because she enjoys the friendships/people inthe local congregation. She doesn't agree with certain policies (or doctrinal) tenets of the NAC but I guess just chooses to ignore them. I can't, and won't speak for her and she is more than capable of speaking for herself. As far as the issue being addressed, let's face it, it doesn't matter what policy (or docrinal) issue one can bring up within the NAC, whether it be female roles, finance reform, or what music gets used, until there would be a change in the hierarchical structure, nothing will ever change and you can yell, moan, kvetch, gribe, etc. about it all you want and it won't make a difference. I agree lacnac. A woman sharing concerns won't change anything... EVEN if they do care enough to make the effort to contact the powers-that-be. Whether a woman is "capable of speaking for herself" or not, the discrimination will continue until men care enough to jump on board and openly share their objections about female second-class status in the New Apostolic Church.... rather than share "jokes". (lacnac, I know that you DID voice your objections to the discrimination.... but I feel you were the exception, rather than the rule.) As I mentioned earlier, not one man broached the topic at the all-male Synod. I wrote the leaders asking that the topic be addressed. They must not have a problem with the system -- I received no responses, nor were women's issues discussed at the meeting. "Brothers" pretend to be "understanding" but somehow can't find their balls when it comes to sticking their necks out on topics that buck the system. Edited 3 times by deaconess 09/13/2012 14:44.
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Offender		#9		[-]
Posts: 467 09/13/2012 17:09	deaconess wrote: A woman sharing concerns won't change anything... This (incorrectly) implies that if a man shares his concerns that things will change. Yeah - so NOT HAPPENING.
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BrendaP		#10		[-]
Posts: 7534 09/13/2012 17:19 Administrator	Offender wrote: deaconess wrote: A woman sharing concerns won't change anything... This (incorrectly) implies that if a man shares his concerns that things will change. Yeah - so NOT HAPPENING. Wellllll, this is the "women" thread But yes, I agree, so NOT HAPPENING.
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RVahlsing	Balls!	#11		[-]
Posts: 256 09/13/2012 17:23 Massive Member	deaconess wrote: "Brothers" pretend to be "understanding" but somehow can't find their balls when it comes to sticking their necks out on topics that buck the system. It's not really their fault . . . they are taught to revere the hierarchy and to never question, because questioning the NAC phonies is likened to questioning God. Add to that the fact that no member owns anything in the NAC - when you don't own so much as a piece of paper in the cult, what can anyone do but *leave*?
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RVahlsing	A numbers game	#12		[-]
Posts: 256 09/13/2012 17:45 Massive Member	deaconess wrote: "I think you're on to something, lacnac!" says deaconess' in her 9,382nd post! What?
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strawberry		#13		[-]
Posts: 69 09/16/2012 18:08 Banned	Without the support of women and recognition of thier role in leadership, the demise of NAC is inevitable as powerful "administration brothers" slowly dies one by one. The viability of the church depends on its supporters. Women have a large part in this. Until women are given the credit they deserve, i.e. to stand behind the alter has a female apostle, NAC will not survive in the long term. As women climb the career ladder by acquiring education, the world is becoming more liberal. The church should adapt to this change in order to survive. Edited 1 time by strawberry 09/17/2012 22:04.
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LACNAC		#14		[-]
Posts: 2225 09/17/2012 00:10 Forum Moderator	strawberry wrote: Without the support of women and recognition of thier role in leadership, the demise of NAC is inevitable as powerful "administration brothers" slow dies one by one. The viability of the church depends on its supporters. Women have a large part in this. Until women are given the credit they deserve, i.e. to stand behind the alter has a female apostle, NAC will not survive in the long term. As women climb the career ladder by acquiring education, the world is becoming more liberal. The church should adapt to this change in order to survive. Strawberry, There were many of us (former NAC's) that wouldn't have a problem having women ministers in the NAC. However, I don't know if that is ever going to be a reality. At least night before the NAC ceases to exist. However, this is clearly not an issue limited to the NAC. The Roman Catholic church does not allow female ministers. The Orthodox Jewish faith does not allow female rabbis. As far as your comment about "given the credit they deserve" (and maybe that's just the way you phrased it), that is the problem with a significant number of the current administration brothers in the NAC. They feel they deserve a position. No one "deserves" the position. It isn't supposed to be a promotion. A true minister is supposed to be just that. Someone (male or female), that minsters to people.
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strawberry		#15		[-]
Posts: 69 09/22/2012 18:12 Banned	LACNAC wrote: Strawberry, There were many of us (former NAC's) that wouldn't have a problem having women ministers in the NAC. However, I don't know if that is ever going to be a reality. At least night before the NAC ceases to exist. However, this is clearly not an issue limited to the NAC. The Roman Catholic church does not allow female ministers. The Orthodox Jewish faith does not allow female rabbis. As far as your comment about "given the credit they deserve" (and maybe that's just the way you phrased it), that is the problem with a significant number of the current administration brothers in the NAC. They feel they deserve a position. No one "deserves" the position. It isn't supposed to be a promotion. A true minister is supposed to be just that. Someone (male or female), that minsters to people. Who deserves any title is not the point. Gender equality is the real message here. Credibility is not limited to religious title of ministry. Credibility refers to acknowledgement for the work women do in various ways. Giving women the same acknowledgement as men, i.e. teaching Sunday school children to honor women for their work in cultivating the soul and spirit of a person. There is psychological implications in teaching children, "The man is the head of household. The woman is the help mate." This is simply not the right thing to do. What kind of leadership skills does this message teach a young girl trying to climb the career ladder? The demise of NAC is inevitable because of the way women are treated. Women have more power than the good Christian Apostles will ever realize. Male or female should not be an issue in ministry - yes, I agree. But in reality, it is an issue in the NAC - that is the problem.
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LACNAC		#16		[-]
Posts: 2225 09/23/2012 22:36 Forum Moderator	Remove this ad strawberry wrote: Who deserves any title is not the point. Gender equality is the real message here. Credibility is not limited to religious title of ministry. Credibility refers to acknowledgement for the work women do in various ways. Giving women the same acknowledgement as men, i.e. teaching Sunday school children to honor women for their work in cultivating the soul and spirit of a person. There is psychological implications in teaching children, "The man is the head of household. The woman is the help mate." This is simply not the right thing to do. What kind of leadership skills does this message teach a young girl trying to climb the career ladder? The demise of NAC is inevitable because of the way women are treated. Women have more power than the good Christian Apostles will ever realize. Male or female should not be an issue in ministry - yes, I agree. But in reality, it is an issue in the NAC - that is the problem. I will agree with you that gender equality is a problem in the NAC. I won't agree with you that it will be the reason for the eventual demise of the NAC. Look, I personally believe that a woman is equally qualified to do most jobs that a man can do, and if she does, she should receive equal pay and equal recognition. I say "most" jobs because I do think that just based on physiological differences, there are potentially certain jobs (e.g., physical labor) that men may generally be more suited for. That being said, I think women are capable of equally performing any intellectual or leadership role. Now, with respect to your comment about "Man being the head of household, woman beingthe helpmate", we can say that statement is not "the right thing to do", but, as I pointed out previously, it isn't unique to the NAC. That statement served as the "model" for the traditional family for thousands of years. Read the Torah, as you claim to practice Judaism, and see how women's roles are described there. Read any history book and see the traditional role of the woman. Up until relatively recently (last 60 years or so), culturally, religiously, etc., women were not given much equality. Even the right to vote (as a federal right) was not granted to women in the US until 1920 and if you look at at women's rights to vote throughout the world, with a couple of rare exceptions, those rights were granted throughout the 20th Century. There are still some middle eastern counties that don't allow women to vote (Saudi Arabia is slated to theoretically allow it in 2015). Couple that with the fact that you have the Roman Catholic Church that does not allow women priests (or any other ministry like cardinal, bishop,etc.) and the Orthodox Jewish faith that doesn't allow women rabbis, you are left with a whole lot of inequality beyond the NAC. I am not trying to justify it, I am just stating a fact that the issue isn't isolated to the NAC.
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No Official Position Paper on the role of Women in the NAC

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NAC from A to Z

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H

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M

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This is NOT an official New Apostolic Church website! For official news or information regarding the church, please contact:

The New Apostolic Church * 1703 Peninsula Dr, Erie, PA 16505-4242 * (814) 833-6063

e-mail NAC USA : communications@nac-usa.org

e-mail Peter Johanning, Media Secretary of the New Apostolic Church : peter.johanning@nak.org

This is NOT an official New Apostolic Church website! For official news or
information regarding the church, please contact:

**The New Apostolic Church * 1703 Peninsula Dr, Erie, PA 16505-4242 * (814) 833-6063**