Lost:

You hit the nail on the head! Nepotism, plain and simple. I challenge the church to prove otherwise. They can't. Why? you ask. Unless people start changing their names and heritage just look.

WITWICAL:

I know it seems as if everyone is just bitter and complaining. I too thought that when I first ran across this board some 7 years ago. I was outraged! Mad! Thought for sure this place was the devil. Guess what? Life happened. Aside from this board, nothing to do with this board. I went through a difficult time in my life, where was the church? What could they offer? Nowhere and Nothing.

I started to ask myself why this was. I looked closely, and took a step back. I also did something I was indoctrinated not to do. Ask someone OUTSIDE the church for help. I looked at other churches and how they did things. Do you know how hard this was? I was (am) a 5th generation NAC. I wouldn't even go near other churches for friends and NON-Nac family weddings. I snickered through NON-Nac funerals thinking how 'stupid' these people were. I ruined family relationships of those who left the church or were not NAC.

I offered to the point of stupidity. I got in fights with "THE WORLDLY PEOPLE" who THOUGHT they had the holy spirit. I even went up against a minister who claimed to have the holy spirit. How dare he? I thought to myself.

Then when I really NEEDED the church, they had NOTHING to offer. UNTRAINED ministers who were not qualified to help with the serious problems I was faced with. But, you know what, they offered self-serving help that kept me tied to the church. The church told me what car to buy, where I should go to school, what activities I should be doing, what women I should be dating, offered job and financial advice unsolicited.

After I investigated other churches and what they were doing, I actually went to one. Guess what? The roof didn't fall in. I didn't have a heart attack at the movie and go straight to hell. The Lord didn't come while I was at the ball game, I wasn't LEFT BEHIND! Don't think this was easy.

I still have guilt issues that I seek help professionally for, real professionals with actual training in how the mind works, not NAC BOBBOTS who repeat VER BATIM what the next guy up the chain says.

So back to looking honestly at qualifications. What are the qualifications to hold a ministry in the NAC?

In most other religious organizations, any person asked to handle a responsibility must be qualified or is at the very least given a written description of the qualifications. Ministers are trained and PAID. Infractions are dealt with and they are dismissed. Church organizations who have national and regional offices hire professionals to do accounting, building and musical jobs. They must be qualified. They must be INTERVIEWED and a BOARD votes on their hiring.

Local congregations in other denominations pay some sort of dues to a national organization in return for clearly defined services. The rest of any money is transparently accounted for and invested and used to pay bills and professionals for services such as music, lawn care, cleaning, etc.

You ask what qualifies a person for a high ministry or position in the NAC. Sure, there are plenty who can make the cut. Read the musical notes thread, read about all of the people on the committees and who help in the musical area.

For example, several UNPAID directors have Master's degrees in music. Why do you think the music was so good at the last chief apostle service? Doesn't the director have a master's degree in CHORAL CONDUCTING?

Anytime anyones ask about qualifications, TBers blather on about the heart. Who gives a crap? Does the job get done? Is the person qualified? I'm talking about positions not ministries.

As far as ministers are concerned, look at the last names.

Apostles:
Kolb Sr. Kolb Jr. - Father-Son
Fendt Sr. - Fendt Jr. Father - Son MANY others in years past. DAP - Bishops etc.
E. Vovak - W. Vovak - Brothers (Son former District Elder) E Vovaks daughters married into NAC family name.
Freund - Freund - D. Ap - Bishop relation?
Schmidt Hammer Hecht - All with relatives high up. Isn't hecht related to Vovak? I know he lived with Vovak when he came from germany. Vovak also had relatives that went high up the chain - Brectelsbauer.

The list goes on and on. When was the last time, someone joined the church as an adult and moved up to a Bishop or higher ministry as a FIRST generation NAC? And I don't mean in Africa or India. Here in the good ole USA?

The hierarchy of the NAC is a family business. The names prove it. Go read the 6 degrees of separation thread. It personally makes me sick.

NJ

OK Bert,

I checked my sources.

Hecht moved in with Willie Vovak and ended up marrying DEv. Munsterman's daughter.

Is a DEV a high enough office for you bert? Or does he need to marry higher up?

Don't you see any correlation between living with Willie as the son he never had and his rise to Apostle?

Anyone? Beuhler?

NJ

anyone have the skinny on hammer?